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Topic: duplet in alla breve (Read 4395 times) previous topic - next topic

duplet in alla breve

is there any chance, that duplet command shall be in newer version of NWC, cause here is to much improvising to achive right effect in comparison with the other features...

Re: duplet in alla breve

Reply #1 –
ignore the subject, ignore alla breve....(foolish)

Re: duplet in alla breve

Reply #2 –
"Much improvising" is certainly required in some areas of NWC, but duplets really aren't among them.

Assuming all you want is the correct sound of a duplet, all you need to do is dot the notes.  For example, to achieve an eighth-note duplet (two eighths in the time of three), you can simply use two dotted eighth notes.  There is some disagreement over whether this is an acceptable solution _visually_, but none over whether it achieves the correct rhythmic effect.

In favor of the notational correctness of dotted-quarters in these situations (instead of quarters with a duplet marking) is the practice of some fairly prominent 20th-century composers, among them Benjamin Britten.  On the other hand, some people feel that this is a "hack" and the traditional duplet notation is the only correct one.  Ultimately it's up to the composer's preference and his or her judgment as to how easy the notation will be for performers to read.

Re: duplet in alla breve

Reply #3 –
Every single time duplets come up (I searched the archives recently before posting a question which the search answered, incidently), someone defends NWC's notation, and invariably brings up Britten as an example. I find it pretty amusing.

List of people who use the dotted eighth notation:
-Britten

List of people who use the duplet notation:
-Anyone who is not Britten

Ok, so maybe that's pushing it. But Britten and his ilk are definitely in the minority. It really would be nice to have the ability to chose one's preferred notation, especially since duplets are far more common, and, I imagine, would open the door to NWC n-tuplets.

Granted, dotted eighths are just fine for playback purposes and this is not a life and death matter, but duplets are definitely near the top of my personal wish list for new features.

-m

Re: duplet in alla breve

Reply #4 –
Maciek, if you think my comments represented the situation unfairly I wish you'd let me know how.  I specifically did not "defend" NWC's notation.  I said (a) that it produces the correct rhythmic result, (b) that there is disagreement about whether it was "correct" notationally, (c) that Britten was a well-known composer who often used dotted notes instead of duplets, and (d) ultimately whether to accept and use this notation is up to the composer.  I think these are all true statements.  For people who dislike the current NWC behavior, there's always the wish list, and I assure you that many people have already requested duplet support along with other currently unsupported groupings (quintuplets and so forth), I've made such wishes myself, and I personally hope that all of these wishes are granted as soon as possible.

I don't particularly see how it matters whether I've made these comments once or many times.  The question gets asked  over and over.  Should the answer change every time?

Re: duplet in alla breve

Reply #5 –
 
My ¢0.01:

The recent workaround(s) for the n-tuplet problem:

  • {n | n € Z, n = 2 or n > 3}
should be submitted as a User Tip and aded to the unofficial FAQ.

If these are already done Then

  • beat me!
End If

:þ

Ertugrul

---
ertugrulinanc-at-ixir-dot-com
 

Re: duplet in alla breve

Reply #6 –
Grant,

I'm sorry if my reply seemed that serious (or aggressive). You're right, you did not "defend" the notation. That was poor word choice on my part. You did say there is "some disagreement" about the matter, whereas in my (admittedly limited) experience, duplets are pretty much satus quo. In any case, I'd rather drop this because we're obviously on the same general page regarding the issue: we both agree it should be up to the composer.

By the way, I just didn't realize it was you who brought up Britten almost every time. I guess that's not so much a testament as how uncommon a notation that dotted eighths are, but more to how helpful you've been here over the years =). I apologize.

-m

Re: duplet in alla breve

Reply #7 –
I've never seen Britten's scores myself, but I've seen this type of notation often --especially when computer-printed, with other sofwtare than NWC.
Personnally it's seems perfectly correct to me, but it may be because the most "remarkable" place I saw a duplet written this way (dotted notes) was during a final exam at the Conservatoire (national french music school). Many people had troubles with it, as some people also have trouble with Fb or Bsharp.
It should be known by a sight-reader, but it is uncommon so it may need an explanation for a choir, for instance.
BTW, I once used the dotted notation to explain how a duplet had to be sing, because the bass section was singing triplets, and the soprano couldn't sing the duplet correctly. So I drew it as 6 16ths, grouped by 2 (triplets) or 3 (duplets), then rewriting it as eighths and dotted eighths. And it worked...
 

Re: duplet in alla breve

Reply #8 –
About n-uplet, you can also refer to Warren Porter's tip on pentuplets, but I'm pretty sure other threads in the forum discuss it...