NoteWorthy Composer Forum

Forums => Tips & Tricks => Object Plugins => Topic started by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-09-18 05:13 am

Title: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-09-18 05:13 am
PageTxtMaestro makes it easy to add a variety of page text elements to the printed page in two simple steps:




Each PageTxt object can be defined such that it displays information found in the current file. This is done by using variables, which are enclosed in % characters. For example, %Author% will show the author text set from File, Info. The following variables can be used inside a PageTxt object:

brThis is adds a line break in the text
TitleThis is the title from File, Info
AuthorThis is the author from File, Info
LyricistThis is the lyricist from File, Info
Copyright1This is the first copyright line from File, Info
Copyright2This is the second copyright line from File, Info
StaffNameThis is the staff name from Staff Properties
StaffLabelThis is the staff label from Staff Properties
StaffLabelAbbrThis is the abbreviated staff label from Staff Properties
StaffGroupThis is the staff group from Staff Properties
PageNum
PageNum,1
This is a special case variable. You can use %PageNum% by itself, or add a comma and starting page number, such as %PageNum,7%, which starts numbering from 7.
Comment,Label
This is a special case variable. It is used to access custom variables set in the comments section of File, Info.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2015-09-18 05:41 am
Excellent, thanks Eric.  This is sooo encouraging :D

Now....  Can "PageTxt" be modified so that it can also use data already stored in the file?

E.G. the title, and the staff label?

Thank you again :D
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-09-18 05:42 am
In version 2.75, an object plugin cannot see the file info, so you have to define your own custom text. You only have to do it once at the start of the staff.

Update: Mike found a bug in one of the api functions, so this provided an opportunity for additional api methods. Object plugins now have access to file info when drawing.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Lloyd on 2015-09-18 07:10 am
Thanks, this plugin will be very useful, but I think multiple instances would be a good idea, I mean, it lets you set (as you say) only "one for each predefined position". Multiple instances for each position would be good for making several page sub-tittles, several (and separated) composers or over-tittle dedicatons.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Richard Woodroffe on 2015-09-18 07:28 am
A very useful plugin, thanks Eric.

One small point for those that go down into the minutia of printing positions.
If you have any form of staff labels activated, even if you don't have a staff label defined, then the title (defined as Top-Center) on page one is slightly adjusted in comparison with the positions of the same top-center titles on other pages.

Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2015-09-18 07:33 am
In version 2.75, an object plugin cannot see the file info, so you have to define your own custom text. You only have to do it once at the start of the staff.
Fair Enough - this is already streets ahead of manually placing text, Thank you
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Mike Shawaluk on 2015-09-18 12:17 pm
This looks very useful. I can think of a few enhancements to this object pair:


Thanks,
Mike
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-09-19 01:26 pm
I am looking at substantially changing this mechanism in order to support:


The down side is that these changes will inevitably complicate the objects. I will post an update soon.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-09-20 05:20 am
  • classifying page text independent of its page boundary location
  • multiple instances of page text using the same page boundary location
  • size adjustments to the built-in font styles
  • re-use of size and position for updated text sharing the same class

Update completed, and I believe all of these objectives have been met. In addition, you can now use File Info variables, and specify that text should only appear on Odd or Even pages.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Opagust on 2015-09-20 08:44 am
Great improvements!
Nevertheless, I miss 1 option: I'd also like to set Page Display Control to 'first page only'
And please can you define 'PageNumRaw'  and 'PageNumFrom,1 ? When I use these, there value = the value of 'PageNum'.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Richard Woodroffe on 2015-09-20 08:53 am
I'd also like to set Page Display Control to 'first page only'


You can do this by copying your original instruction to Page 2 and setting the visibility to "Never" . Or if you want to turn off all PageTxtMaestro instructions, the copy the PageTxtMaestro object to page 2 and set the visibility of this to never.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Rick G. on 2015-09-20 09:37 am
IMO, a centered title ought to be centered on the page:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.75)
|PgSetup|TitlePage:N|StaffLabels:First System
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Label:"Vocal"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|User|PageTxtMaestro.nw|Pos:7|Class:StaffSig
|User|PageTxt.nw|Pos:10|PgStyle:main|Fnt:PageTitleText|XLoc:Center|YLoc:Top|Text:Title
|RestMultiBar|NumBars:32|PrintOnce:N|WhenHidden:ShowBars,ShowRests|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Richard Woodroffe on 2015-09-20 09:45 am
IMO, a centered title ought to be centered on the page:


I believe this to be the same issue that I raised here
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=9215.msg65796#msg65796 (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=9215.msg65796#msg65796)
It doesn't seem to have changed with either the evolution of RC or PageTxtMaestro
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Rick G. on 2015-09-20 09:46 am
I believe this to be the same issue that I raised
You are correct.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-09-20 11:18 am
If you have any form of staff labels activated, even if you don't have a staff label defined, then the title (defined as Top-Center) on page one is slightly adjusted in comparison with the positions of the same top-center titles on other pages.

I am looking into this.

You can do this by copying your original instruction to Page 2 and setting the visibility to "Never" .

You don't even need to find page 2. You can add a new instruction in the 2nd bar, and it will be applied starting in page 2.

You can also use this same technique in reverse. You can hide the first instance in order to skip the first page, then add a second instance in the second bar.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Mike Shawaluk on 2015-09-20 11:22 am
I am looking into this.
In PageTxtMaestro, line 135, change the centering calculation from:
Code: (lua) [Select · Download]
x = (pg_r - pg_l)/2 + cx
to
Code: (lua) [Select · Download]
x = (pg_r + pg_l)/2 + cx

Mike
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-09-20 11:36 am
Updated with:

Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Mike Shawaluk on 2015-09-20 12:10 pm
I've noticed one other anomaly, that limits the usefulness of having both PageNum and PageNumRaw. Namely, unless you check the Page Numbering checkbox in Page Setup > Options, the From: number will always be set to 1. Therefore, when the printing of page numbers is suppressed (as it will probably be when PageTxtMaestro is being used), PageNum and PageNumRaw will always be the same value.

PageNumFrom,X does seem to provide the necessary numbering function when offset page numbers are needed.

Mike
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-09-20 12:12 pm
The PageNumFrom,X is probably the only one that is needed. Perhaps the other two should just be removed.

Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-09-20 01:03 pm
A new update which uses only %PageNum% for page numbering. Simply add a comma and page number, like %PageNum,2%, when needed.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Opagust on 2015-09-21 08:59 am
In PageTxtMaestro, line 135, change the centering calculation from:
Code: (lua) [Select · Download]
x = (pg_r - pg_l)/2 + cx
to
Code: (lua) [Select · Download]
x = (pg_r + pg_l)/2 + cx

Mike
That does it
Thanks, Mike!
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-09-21 03:13 pm
A new update which adds:

Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-10-11 01:16 pm
Updated. You can now control multi-line text block alignment.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: William Ashworth on 2015-11-10 04:49 am
I may be missing something, but I don't find a way to indicate that a text object should be used only once.  One can, of course, enter a copy of the "PageTxt" object on the next page with no text in it, but that's awkward. I'd like to see the "Page Display Control" drop-down box include a "this page only" option.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Mike Shawaluk on 2015-11-10 11:28 am
I may be missing something, but I don't find a way to indicate that a text object should be used only once.  One can, of course, enter a copy of the "PageTxt" object on the next page with no text in it, but that's awkward. I'd like to see the "Page Display Control" drop-down box include a "this page only" option.
Your observation is correct. There does not appear to be a way to do this without a second PageTxt object, either with no text or with its Visibility is set to Never.

I agree that having a "This page only" choice would be a nice feature.

(Message edited - what I meant to say originally)
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: William Ashworth on 2015-11-10 05:21 pm
Actually, visibility doesn't have to be set to "never": all you need is a second instance of the same style you want to turn off, but with no text in it. I'd already done that. Wasn't trying to solve a problem, just make an observation that might lead to an improvement.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-11-11 01:28 pm
I'd like to see the "Page Display Control" drop-down box include a "this page only" option.

Thanks for the suggestion. I did an initial review, and this looks technically feasible, albeit non-trivial. I'll do some experiments later today. Will posts the results later...
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: William Ashworth on 2015-11-12 01:35 am
Would "Just once" be easier? It would have pretty much the same effect.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-11-12 03:39 pm
New option, Once, has been added to the Page Display Control types.

All text configured as Once text will be shown exactly once, on the page that contains the item. Unlike other text control types, Once text fully implements the Visibility control.

[See Source Changes (https://github.com/nwsw/nwc-plugin-core/commit/bf1cc52e74383ecf459a52624d15fa9f009b0560)]
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: hmmueller on 2015-11-15 01:06 pm
Two questions:

1. Regarding all these standard objects: How do I know whether the version that came with the 2.75 upgrade is the one that has been discussed here lately? Or, more constructively: I would like to see a version numbering for the standard objects - otherwise, I have to get all the objects from github and overwrite my current one, wouldn't I? (and I wonder whether for average end users, going to github is an option at all - is there some "bulk update mechanism" for objects?

2. Regarding this object: I want to use it to print the copyright info on each page (see https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=9138.0). Now, if I add PageTxtMaestro and PageTxt at the very beginning of my score, the copyright notice is printed twice on the first page (even if I put a bar between the two). Of course, I could put the PageTxt "a little later" (in the second measure) - but I'd like to add the two objects into all my templates, and there, of course, are not yet any measures - so I would have to remember to move the PageTxt to a later measure lateron. So either (a) can I put the PageTxt in a template so that it will show up only from page 2 onwards; or, alternatively, (b) could I somehow disable the "standard" printing of the copyright notice on page 1 even if a I add Copyright 1 and 2?

Thx a lot for any enlightenments!
Harald M.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-11-15 01:20 pm
You should turn off the built-in title page info from File, Page Setup, Options.

Tools, Manage Objects is the easiest way to ensure that all of your installed objects are up to date.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: hmmueller on 2015-11-15 01:54 pm
Thank you.

Re "turning off title info" - I assume that's now the suggested way: Create all the standard text with PageTxt objects.
Now, there's one problem - for which I have a solution, but is it the best one?: I print different scores from one NWC file controlled via "Page Setup / Contents" - e.g., conductor's score, choir's score, piano score (sometimes with soprano voice - where I'd like to have that small staff  :) ) etc. So that the title and copyright and author and lyricist appear on all these scores, I add the 1+4 objects to each staff and mark them as "Visibility: Top Staff Only". That works out quite nice ... (except that the title seems not to claim as much place as the "old title" did and hence sometimes moves too near to the top staff ... so be it).

Re "Manage Objects" - I admit that I overlooked this; and it took me a while to find out that right-clicking opens the important menu where you can install a new download (some text to this end would have been helpful). But this is exactly the feature needed - sorry that I implied you'd have overlooked that!!

Thanks a lot!
Harald M.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2015-11-15 02:00 pm
The trick to adding spacing is boundary objects. Put something like this in the first bar:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.75,Single)
|Boundary|Style:NewSize|Upper:20|Visibility:TopStaff
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

In the second bar, you can restore the lesser spacing with another shorter boundary object.

While in Manage Objects (https://noteworthycomposer.com/nwc2/help/MNU_SHOWUSEROBJECTS.htm), you can also double-click each updated object plugin entry to initiate an update.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: hmmueller on 2015-11-15 02:12 pm
Spacing ... oh yes. So the final result is that I start each staff in all my templates with this one (the dummy bar is there to force the first boundary to take effect):

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
|User|PageTxtMaestro.nw|Pos:0|Class:StaffSig|Visibility:TopStaff
|Boundary|Style:NewSize|Upper:25|Lower:6|Visibility:TopStaff
|Bar|XBarCnt:Y|Visibility:Never
|Boundary|Style:Reset|Visibility:TopStaff
|User|PageTxt.nw|Pos:0|PgStyle:Title|Text:%Title%|Fnt:PageTitleText|YLoc:Top|XLoc:Center|PgCtrl:Once|Visibility:TopStaff
|User|PageTxt.nw|Pos:0|PgStyle:Author|Text:%Author%|Fnt:PageText|YLoc:Top|XLoc:Right|CY:10
|User|PageTxt.nw|Pos:0|PgStyle:Lyricist|Text:%Lyricist%|Fnt:PageText|YLoc:Top|CY:10|XLoc:Left
|User|PageTxt.nw|Pos:0|PgStyle:Copyright|Text:%Copyright1%%br%%Copyright2%|Fnt:PageSmallText|YLoc:Bottom|XLoc:Center|Visibility:TopStaff

This should work ... thanks a lot!
Harald M.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Rick G. on 2015-11-16 07:19 am
(the dummy bar is there to force the first boundary to take effect):
A hidden grace rest will also work. I find them preferable to bar lines (which sometimes affect printing in strange ways).
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: hmmueller on 2015-11-16 10:19 am
Thx! - I'll modify my templates once more :)
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: hmmueller on 2015-11-16 10:40 am
... I tried the hidden grace rest, but this creates, for me, a bad problem. When I start my staffs as follows ...

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.75,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#,G#,D#|Tonic:E
|User|PageTxtMaestro.nw|Pos:0|Class:StaffSig|Visibility:TopStaff
|Boundary|Style:NewSize|Upper:25|Lower:6|Visibility:TopStaff
|Rest|Dur:8th,Grace
|Boundary|Style:Reset|Visibility:TopStaff
|User|PageTxt.nw|Pos:0|PgStyle:Title|Text:%Title%|Fnt:PageTitleText|YLoc:Top|XLoc:Center|PgCtrl:Once
|User|PageTxt.nw|Pos:0|PgStyle:Author|Text:%Author%|Fnt:PageText|YLoc:Top|XLoc:Right|CY:10|PgCtrl:Once
|User|PageTxt.nw|Pos:0|PgStyle:Lyricist|Text:%Lyricist%|Fnt:PageText|YLoc:Top|CY:10|XLoc:Left|PgCtrl:Once
|User|PageTxt.nw|Pos:0|PgStyle:Copyright|Text:%Copyright1%%br%%Copyright2%|Fnt:PageSmallText|YLoc:Bottom|XLoc:Center|Visibility:TopStaff
|User|Acciaccatura.ms|Pos:0|Class:StaffSig
|TimeSig|Signature:3/8
|PerformanceStyle|Style:Legato|Pos:7.5
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

... then that first whole rest does not come out as a 3/8 rest, but as a 4/4 rest! :( ... Do you put some things (clefs, time signature, key, objects) at other places to circumvent this?

Harald

Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Richard Woodroffe on 2015-11-16 11:53 am
Noteworthy does not like any additional music item in the measure if you are using a whole note rest as a measure rest and the time sig is less than 4/4 even if it is a grace note that does not take up time. For a 3/8 time sig, if you use a dotted quarter for a measure rest, then it will work (I think).
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: hmmueller on 2015-11-16 12:01 pm
Ah ... right. I think that right now, I'll stay with my hidden and eXcluded bar, until I find the troubles it might create myself.

Thanks
Harald
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: SEBC on 2018-01-12 05:43 pm
I need some congratulations. I have successfully put in my first subtitle after years of wishing I had them but not knowing how to do it.

It took a lot of tweaking back and forth to get the settings right. What I used was:

y offset at 15 and font size at .5

Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: William Ashworth on 2018-01-12 06:30 pm
Font size percentage will differ by which font you use and how big you have it set on the "fonts" tab of the Page Setup dialogue box, but yeah, that sounds about right.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: SEBC on 2018-01-13 02:09 pm
I have another question that might belong in this topic.

I want to put performance suggestions at the bottom of the page. Can I set that up as a default setting with all the parameters already defined rather than having to put it in each time.

Also, if I wanted to make an entire separate front page of text with performance notes and background info, what would be the best way to go about it? (Not necessarily with this plug in if there is an easier way to do it within NWC.)

I apologize if this question has been answered already but I have a hard time finding answers for some reason! Plus my eyes glaze over if there is too much techno-babble....

Thanks for any help you can give me!
SEBC
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: hmmueller on 2018-01-13 02:44 pm
...
Also, if I wanted to make an entire separate front page of text with performance notes and background info, what would be the best way to go about it? (Not necessarily with this plug in if there is an easier way to do it within NWC.)
Like what I did in the PDF linked in that posting (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=9679.msg69171#msg69171)?

I do not use NWC for this, but write separate documents and combine them to a single PDF with free PDFCreator (a common and standard tool for creating PDF files).
In that case, I wrote the first page separately (in Microsoft Word) and then used the "Merge" feature of PDFCreator to first print the front page, then do "Merge", then print the NWC score (from NWC to PDFCreator as printer), and then "Merge All" to create a single PDF from it.

H.M.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: SEBC on 2018-01-14 03:29 pm
Like what I did in the PDF linked in that posting (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=9679.msg69171#msg69171)?

I do not use NWC for this, but write separate documents and combine them to a single PDF with free PDFCreator (a common and standard tool for creating PDF files).
In that case, I wrote the first page separately (in Microsoft Word) and then used the "Merge" feature of PDFCreator to first print the front page, then do "Merge", then print the NWC score (from NWC to PDFCreator as printer), and then "Merge All" to create a single PDF from it.

H.M.


Yes, exactly! It would be great to be able to do this within NWC. Is it possible? Could one of our talented developers or forum users come up with a tool or modification to make it happen? (You know who you are!!)

I also have a question about getting a line break. At the top is says to use br. Where, when, and how? When I put in br in the text line...it just shows up as br... ( you can all stop rolling your eyes).

Also, I am getting some subtitle collisions with the lyrcist, composer lines generated from the file information box. Is there a way to adjust that box instead of having to create 2 additional page text objects for each time this happens? I think I just need it to be about two lines further down on the page. Or maybe that will cause other collisions, like with the top stave?
One more question about performance notes. Where should they generally appear? At the top before the piece starts? At the bottom of the first page? At the point of performance? But I am having some issues with having them inserted as a txt object using  "x" as sometimes they go off the side of the page if they are too long, or if I change by staff font size then it might up in the middle o the page instead of at the bottom of that page. Is there a way to insert it using page text maestro and only have it show up on a certain specified page?
 
Thanks for helping me! I apologize if that question has already been asked and answered. Just point me in the right direction.



Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Mike Shawaluk on 2018-01-14 05:55 pm
I'll answer the easy question. When you want to create a break, you need to use %br%. This applies to the other "special variables" also.

I think it might be noted in the discussion that when you are using PageTxtMaestro.nw, it's best to suppress the regular title, author and copyright fields. Perhaps that will help avoid the collisions you are seeing.

Mike
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: SEBC on 2018-01-14 06:42 pm
Well I thought about suppressing them but that seems like it is more work to put in all those different objects rather than dealing with it in the one big file information box. Is there another way around it? Or is it a case of choose one or the other based on the situation?

And thank you for the clarification on my bad use of BR!
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: hmmueller on 2018-01-14 07:06 pm
Yes, exactly! It would be great to be able to do this within NWC.
But why? ??? - it would certainly be much more work than doing it with your favorite document editor (be it OpenOffice or Microsoft Office or whatever) and PDFCreator.

Why it could be attractive to put this into NWC:

a) "NWC should be the one-stop solution for everything with music scores" --> I think that would be very wrong: We should prefer dedicated tools for separate things. This is, on the one hand, a "philosophical" question, but on the other hand a commercial one: For the price of NWC, you cannot expect "everything".

b) "I want some score pieces in the introductory text" --> it is easy to place such pieces into office documents.

c) "I want only one file per score" --> there is probably always more than one file for a finished score: NWC file, setup file for instruments (e.g. sound font assignment) for acceptable playback, resulting PDFs for conductor and players/singers, NWCs for multiple movements etc. Therefore, it is useful anyway to organize scores either in (*) a separate directory per score or (*) with a good naming convention or (*) by placing the files of a score in a ZIP file and only extracting them to a working directory when working with them - and then, it is no problem to have more than one file for a score.

Therefore, I, personally, would not spend any time on putting work into a "new (NWC-affine) solution" for this already easily and nicely achieved feature ... I hope that's understandable now.

H.M.

// Edits in case c) ...
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: hmmueller on 2018-01-14 07:37 pm
Well I thought about suppressing them but that seems like it is more work to put in all those different objects rather than dealing with it in the one big file information box.
First, there seems to be a misunderstanding: You can and do still enter all the score information in that "big file info box", even if you use PageTxt objects to place the information on the printed score. There is no difference here! - as the PageTxt objects pull the information from exactly that file info box.

Therefore, what you should do: Set up the templates you use so that they contain everything you need - either by modifying NWC's templates, or- preferably - creating new templates in a separate folder (and then point Tools-->Options-->Folders-->Templates to that folder).

The best way is to write a score and add all the necessary objects as you like them; then, afterwards, copy this score to the template folder and, there, delete everything after the first clef - but not all the carefully set-up objects at the staffs' beginnings. As an example, I have attached one of my smaller templates (for piano+violin) - as you can see, it has a few objects already predefined on each staff; and the "Title Page Info" unchecked in "File-->Page Setup-->Options" (and I would say that, as of now, there is no longer a need for this method of printing file info; rather, all the NWC standard templates should be updated to use the much more versatile PageTxt objects).

H.M.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Flurmy on 2018-01-14 07:58 pm
We should prefer dedicated tools for separate things.
Someone of a different opinion: Tatsuo Horiuchi (http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2017/12/tatsuo-horiuchi-excel-artist/)
 :))  :))  :))  :))  :))  :))
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: SEBC on 2018-01-15 09:07 pm
Thank you for your discussion of the topic (and creative ideas for Excel!!!!!!!)

I am going to try to make some templates. I need to get organized and save time. This will help for sure. The more I learn, the more I realize that I don't know. I started with version 1. something and have upgraded through the years but I have been too busy to really learn more nwc skills, but that is changing now.

Thank you all again for your patience and willingness to help with things are obvious to the rest of the world.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: hmmueller on 2018-01-15 09:14 pm
... with things are obvious to the rest of the world.

Ah - you can be sure that many of these things were not at all obvious, at least for me, when I started writing scores, and even a long time after! (and I am sure there are many things I still don't know, or do more cumbersome than is necessary ...)

My advantage over you might be that I have written at least 500 NWC scores over the last 18 years (I started with NWC in 1999), among them (more recently) some large ones where I had to think about, and learn, many advanced aspects. You wouldn't want to know how many times I have rewritten my templates for these larger scores - it was certainly more than 20 times!

So please, continue to ask: The answers will, hopefully, not only help you, but also be helpful others who search (and sometimes stumble) through these forums ...

H.M.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: William Ashworth on 2018-01-17 04:19 pm
I started in 1996, so going on 22 years. NWC has changed a LOT in that time, and I've had to learn every change by trial and error. A lot of error. That's computers.

Re templates, BTW: I deal with them by simply not using them. It's not that much work to set up a score from scratch, and every one is slightly different. I HAVE been known to take a string quartet, save it under a new name, and strip all the music out of it....so I've used previous scores as templates. But you don't have to organize a separate set of templates for that, just organize your scores.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: SEBC on 2018-01-17 09:58 pm
Well it is great to hear from such Old timers LOL.  I came to NWC out of desperation because I was trying to use CueBase for scores and 15 years ago they were just awful ( I do not know what they're like today but back then it was strictly an audio program with bare-bones capability for score. I would spend hours trying to get the lyrics to line up with the notes. Eventually in frustration I would print out the lyrics from Word, cut them up into strips, glue them underneath the notes word by word, sometimes syllable by syllable. Yes, it was that bad!)

The abilities of noteworthy composer at that time were such an answer to prayer! I have been told by other composers that if I am serious about my work then I should be switching. Obviously you have chosen not to do that as well and I am curious as to why.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: hmmueller on 2018-01-17 10:18 pm
I have been told by other composers that if I am serious about my work then I should be switching.
Well, if they really tell you that then they are not composers. Mind you, I would never say that the way these people do it is in any way wrong - for them. But:

(a) Composing is, "by definition", assembling music by not playing it (e.g. improvising), but by "constructing it". Finding one's own way of construction is as much a part of composing, as is the actual construction of a specific piece of music. Some people draw diagrams; some sketch scores; some use aleatoric means (toss dices) to create a musical plan (a "score") that can then be performed/"played". So your, or my, way of composing is just as serious as any other way.

(b) Moreover, it must be said that historically, the method of writing a score is the standard method of composing. Just because there are now other means (like assembling bought loops on a DAW) does not mean that the standard - and still taught - method for composing is in any way obsolete or "not serious" (even though photography came up, painting never got "not serious"). Anyone who does not see this does not have any idea about the history of music - which, in my humble opinion, means that he/she is not that serious a composer ...

(c) I have watched a few people on youtube who compose e.g. music for video clips: Their setup is typically a keyboard, hooked to a DAW; and they play track after track on this keyboard, with about the final sound. The results that I have heard were all "short-winded", so to speak: The tension would last maybe for 5 seconds, in some very good examples maybe for half a minute - but none of these composers came up with any sort of construction that would span say 5 minutes or longer. Yes, they might repeat their short ideas and then increase volume, "chorus", tempo, instrumentation - but all that are obviously trivial things. If their listeners do not favor more complex patterns and are happy with "fast food music" (even though it might sound pompous), so be it - also many 19th century military marches or 20th century operetta melodies were short-span-attention pieces, which were probably invented directly on the piano and immediately written down. But like that old method, also the "new" DAW method certainly results in a limited variety of musical output - to suggest that this were "more serious" than constructing and writing classical is, definitely, a little childish ...

(d) I even tried to compose directly on a keyboard. But the result is much worse than if I construct a piece by writing it - writing it first as an abstract sketch (maybe with letters, curved lines, arrows, and some notes thrown in), then as a rough score (which many pieces missing, repetitions only indicated), and then, in a process that tries out much and throws much away, iterating towards a finished piece. In the same way that I build furniture - also there, a significant amount of time goes into drawing sketches (views from outside, construction step, sectional views), and only after the whole "abstract plan"is satisfactory, I select the wood and start up my table saw -, also composing starts lng before the first concrete chord is placed in time and relation to other sounds. At least for me.

... getting a little off topic, ain't I (resp. aren't we)?

H.M.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2018-01-18 12:25 am
<snip>
I have been told by other composers that if I am serious about my work then I should be switching. Obviously you have chosen not to do that as well and I am curious as to why.
Switching to what I wonder...

I can't possibly call myself a "serious composer" but I am serious about the little things that I do.  To this end I choose the tool that works for me.  Unlike software like Sibelius or Finale, NWC allows me to run my ideas out in a free form way, without the need for setting key signatures, time signatures or bar formats before I can even start.

This is similar to when I improvise on my trombone,  I can just let ideas flow without being too worried about anything else. 

With NWC, once the idea is mapped out I can then get down to worrying about the signatures etc. and tidy things up; adding harmonies, figuring out the best chords and so on.

Certainly NWC has some limitations, but with the advent of the latest versions and the availability of user tools and especially plug-ins those limitations are fast being eliminated.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: William Ashworth on 2018-01-18 12:29 am
My blog entry pointed to in another topic (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=9681.0 (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=9681.0)) explains why I stick with NWC over Finale, Sibelius, MuseScore, or any other notation program.  As for composing by assembling sounds produced on synthesizers, etc., my opinion is the same as hmmueller's - although I do compose partially at the keyboard. When I do that, I write down the music I've created the old-fashioned way, with pencil and manuscript paper, and then enter it into NWC and modify and/or extend it as needed to fit the form I'm trying to create.

The music I write is intended for use by performers to reach their (and my) listeners. That requires standard notation, for the most part. If one is just trying to entertain one's self, one might do it a different way.

edit: Lawrie posted while I was writing. Just want to add here that I agree with him.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Mike Shawaluk on 2018-01-18 01:12 am
Perhaps @NoteWorthy Online will choose to spin this into its own thread, since we stopped talking about PageTxtMaestro some time ago. Since it has become a "why are you (still) using NWC" thread, I thought I would add my own 2 cents.

I too am a long-time user; I bought version 1.50b on a floppy disk back in April 1998 - has it really been almost 20 years?  At that time, there were no low-cost alternatives to NWC, and I was pleased at the quality of music I could create at a fraction of the cost of other programs. At that time I wasn't active in the forums here; I found them around the time version 2.0 came out, but still mostly lurked until the beta period for 2.75 started. Prior to that version, I had been toying with MuseScore, which a fellow choir member told me about. I was originally drawn to it because it allowed better control over some of the things that frustrated me about NWC, namely slurs and a few other elements which were not supported in NWC at that time, like arpeggios, verse numbers and lyric extender lines. Anyway, I've been a software developer for most of my career, and the idea of being able to create plugins that could extend and enhance  NWC really appealed to me. Once 2.75 was underway, MuseScore got pushed to the background, and I only use it for the one or two scores I haven't gotten around to converting to NWC yet.

I use it mainly to support our church choir by creating scores for the music we are learning and singing. In some cases, we have octavos which include keyboard accompaniment, and I find it useful to create vocal-only sheet music to reduce the number of page flips while singing. One area I have not fully explored yet is creating practice scores that people can play on their computers so they can hear their parts and sing along. Most of our choir members use tablets for their music (mostly Android, several iPad, a couple Windows Surface Pro) and I look forward to having a NWC Viewer that runs on non-Windows devices someday.

Thanks for listening, and thanks to everyone here who has offered feedback and support for the things I am trying to do with the program.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Warren Porter on 2018-01-19 02:09 am
We had an earlier thread (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=7844.0) on this a few years ago.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: SEBC on 2018-01-19 02:55 am
We had an earlier thread (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=7844.0) on this a few years ago.

That was an interesting read. I wonder how many of those users are still here seven years later?
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Rick G. on 2018-01-19 07:14 am
I wonder how many of those users are still here seven years later?
You needn't wonder. Just click on each of their names and the forum will show when each one last logged in.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: David Palmquist on 2018-01-19 08:44 am
I'm not a composer, just an amateur musician who often needs to notate parts to move them around, change clefs or  and/or transpose them.  I've been using NWC since 1996 and was invited into the beta test group for version 2 back around 2002, IIRC.

At that time I was creating a library for my new rehearsal band, so I was copying out a lot of jazz scores.  NWC had its limitations but still met my needs - I was looking to print working parts, not to publish anything.  NWC was far easier to work with than Finale.  In fairness to Finale, I never really set my mind to learning it because I usually found it meant consulting the less than clear manual for certain tasks that I already knew how to do it in NWC. 

So I've been around a long time and have no aching desire to use any other program.  For a few years I was spending many hours a week notating music, but not so much nowadays.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Flurmy on 2018-01-19 10:27 pm
I'm using NWC since... gosh! 2004.
I choosed it because... it could run also on Win 3.11 that my "music" computer depended upon back then. (You're allowed to read aloud  ;) )
I like to have my scores being readable (I practically forgot how to write by hand because I'm using computers since 1976) so some form of musical editor was in order and NWC was (and still largely is) the easiest to use.
Last but not least: it was (and still is) cheap.
So I forgive it all its various limitation and I keep using it with satisfaction.

Edit: "You're allowed to read aloud  ;)" mistyping. what I meant was: "You're allowed to laught aloud  ;)"
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2018-01-21 06:36 am
Hi Eric,
would it be possible to update PageTxtMaestro such that a line break directive (E.G. %br%) within the comments section of the File Info Dialogue would be honoured?

This way a multiline text entry could be made with data stored in the Info section.

See discussion:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=9696.msg69328
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: SEBC on 2018-01-22 02:06 pm
That was an interesting read. I wonder how many of those users are still here seven years later?

P.S. I finally had time to do some "research". It looks like about 10 out of the 13 posters are still checking in on the forum.
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Flurmy on 2019-01-19 08:44 pm
There is an odd effect in PageTxt.nw.
Take a look a the score here attached using print preview and look at the bottom left corner while browsing the various pages.
It seems that PageTxt.nw is not happy with the "Section close"
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Rick G. on 2019-01-19 09:08 pm
It seems that PageTxt.nw is not happy with the "Section close"
I don't think "Section close" is the problem.
In measure 74, you have:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|User|PageTxt.nw|Pos:1|PgStyle:Title|Text:%Title%|Fnt:PageSmallText|YLoc:Bottom|XLoc:Left|CY:-13
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
I think it should be:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|User|PageTxt.nw|Pos:1|PgStyle:Title|Text:%Title%|Fnt:PageSmallText|YLoc:Bottom|XLoc:Left|CY:-13|PgCtrl:All
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Title: Re: PageTxtMaestro.nw
Post by: Flurmy on 2019-01-19 09:46 pm
I think it should be: (etc.)
Nope!
It should be nothing.
It's a mistyping due to copy and paste ... and to a stupid that didn't see it.
Thank you very much, Rick