Title: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-15 05:04 pm
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-15 05:04 pm
Not being a fan of hidden playing staffs (too much scope for errors when something on a visible staff is changed) I thought it would be useful to implement 16th and 32nd tremolos on layered staffs instead, so that you get the minim noteheads and the (demi)semiquaver beaming.
To install the tool copy it to the scripts directory and take the ".txt" extension off. Add it twice to user tools with a command line of wscript scripts\newtremolo.vbs 32. The first time omit the 32.
Then you just insert two minims (optionally dotted ), select them and run the tool.Then you have to cut and paste half of the output to a layered staff.
The editor looks a bit messy but the printed output is exactly as required.
If you set stemlength for a note then it is preserved and articulations and stem direction of the first note are also preserved.
Edited 02/11/07 to correct "dotted" bug, and also the case of a note/chord tremolo.
Edited 23/03/13 to remove need for cutting and pasting from second staff.
To install the tool copy it to the scripts directory and take the ".txt" extension off. Add it twice to user tools with a command line of wscript scripts\newtremolo.vbs 32. The first time omit the 32.
Then you just insert two minims (optionally dotted ), select them and run the tool.
The editor looks a bit messy but the printed output is exactly as required.
If you set stemlength for a note then it is preserved and articulations and stem direction of the first note are also preserved.
Edited 02/11/07 to correct "dotted" bug, and also the case of a note/chord tremolo.
Edited 23/03/13 to remove need for cutting and pasting from second staff.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2007-10-16 01:05 am
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2007-10-16 01:05 am
G'day Peter,
nice one mate. Though it did take me a second or 2 to figure out what to cut and paste where - bit thick this morning ;)
I have done something similar manually and without layering, but it requires placing the minim noteheads as text and doesn't always line up very well. Yours looks better.
nice one mate. Though it did take me a second or 2 to figure out what to cut and paste where - bit thick this morning ;)
I have done something similar manually and without layering, but it requires placing the minim noteheads as text and doesn't always line up very well. Yours looks better.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rick G. on 2007-10-16 03:45 am
Post by: Rick G. on 2007-10-16 03:45 am
And stem up chords with a second don't work since the rest in the RestChord is positioned over the wrong note!
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-16 07:47 am
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-16 07:47 am
A gremlin removed the example file from my original post (hence Lawrie's slight confusion). Apologies and here it is
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-16 09:13 am
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-16 09:13 am
Quote
I do not concur.
I thought that a bit curt until I realised that you were pointing to another thread. But I don't think you are right. Rests are positioned in the same way as notes (with one whole exception) and the attached file shows that this is not the case with a restchord. The layered example follows the conventions; the restchord does not.
And the following examples (with the rests brought back into the picture) show the resulting problem.
I too looked for a rest chorded with a second in engraved music and, bingo. Novello's new choral edition of Bach's Magnificats in D and Eb Page 98 3rd bar top system shows the rest aligned with the head note. QED!
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rick G. on 2007-10-16 10:02 am
Post by: Rick G. on 2007-10-16 10:02 am
Your jpeg is stem down (nevermind how NWC wrongly defines it). My <example> (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=6027.msg39787#msg39787) is stem up and I have yet to see an example of quality music printing that contradicts it. I can post a scan of the Debussy if you like.
The natural in your example is also a problem as a RestChord. Good luck getting NWC to change anything about them. I would certainly like to see RestChord beaming supported, but my pleas have fallen on deaf ears.
Sorry to sound harsh, but I have devoted several hours to the issue of rest vs. note placement in RestChords. IMO, it is settled. In particular, I do not want to see <this> (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5868.msg39030#msg39030) changed by some misguided notion of correctness. It would break dozens of my songs.
BTW, I rather like the attached. No grace notes, stem lengths are either default, 1 or 0. A bit messier in the Editor, but they take up a lot less space on the printed page. MIDI is theoretically deficient, but good enough for most purposes.
The natural in your example is also a problem as a RestChord. Good luck getting NWC to change anything about them. I would certainly like to see RestChord beaming supported, but my pleas have fallen on deaf ears.
Sorry to sound harsh, but I have devoted several hours to the issue of rest vs. note placement in RestChords. IMO, it is settled. In particular, I do not want to see <this> (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5868.msg39030#msg39030) changed by some misguided notion of correctness. It would break dozens of my songs.
BTW, I rather like the attached. No grace notes, stem lengths are either default, 1 or 0. A bit messier in the Editor, but they take up a lot less space on the printed page. MIDI is theoretically deficient, but good enough for most purposes.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-16 11:15 am
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-16 11:15 am
I could respond equally harshly but you are hoist with your own petard!
This clip is your own example (with the time values halved) and with the equivalent RestChords inserted.
The first RestChord does not correspond with your definitive statement of what it should look like.
My problem (and Lawrie's original one) stems from this error. I have no quibble whatsoever with your Debussy example (similar to the second bar configuration) and don't really understand why you have raised it as an issue. But you did say so that's what you got.
Now to be constructive: can you explain why the script runs instantaneously on my W2000 machine but takes 12 seconds on my faster XP Pro. It evidently runs the script quite quickly but then takes an age to produce the output.
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:2/2
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-3,-2,1x|Opts:Stem=Down
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:Half|Pos2:-3,-2
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-9x,-6,-3,-2,b0|Opts:Stem=Up
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Down,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:Half|Pos2:-6,-3,-2,b0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
This clip is your own example (with the time values halved) and with the equivalent RestChords inserted.
The first RestChord does not correspond with your definitive statement of what it should look like.
My problem (and Lawrie's original one) stems from this error. I have no quibble whatsoever with your Debussy example (similar to the second bar configuration) and don't really understand why you have raised it as an issue. But you did say
Quote
Sorry, can't concur. I could be convinced, but I'd have to see some scans.
Now to be constructive: can you explain why the script runs instantaneously on my W2000 machine but takes 12 seconds on my faster XP Pro. It evidently runs the script quite quickly but then takes an age to produce the output.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rick G. on 2007-10-16 12:44 pm
Post by: Rick G. on 2007-10-16 12:44 pm
Peter, I think we are describing these differently. You are saying stem up|down based on what the Clip says. I refer to stem up|down based on whether the stem is visually up|down. I think we both agree that NWC does this wrong half the time, but disagree over how to describe it.
I need the tight spacing shown here:
I didn't look at your code longer than to see that you used regular expressions. A few years ago, I spent over 40 hours trying to understand RegEx. I failed and do not wish to repeat the experience. If I could use RegEx with any confidence, all my tools would be done in JavaScript instead of VBScript.
I've never used Win2K. One difference between XP and Win98 is the way STDIN is handled. I would look there first. Generally, I like to consume it by using WScript.ReadAll
Edit: I've had a chance to examine your code. At Line:36, you have WScript.Quit inside your With Look block.WScript.Quit is a jump out. I lack the tools to verify that this is a problem.
I need the tight spacing shown here:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)This is much more important to me than saving a layer. I fear that if NWC were to change the rest position, the spacing would expand. That is why I do not concur.
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:8th|Pos2:-1,0
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:8th|Pos2:-1,0
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:8th|Pos2:-1,0
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:8th|Pos2:-1,0
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:8th,Dotted|Pos2:-1,0
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:8th,Dotted|Pos2:-1,0
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:8th,DblDotted|Pos2:-1,0
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:8th,DblDotted|Pos2:-1,0
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
I didn't look at your code longer than to see that you used regular expressions. A few years ago, I spent over 40 hours trying to understand RegEx. I failed and do not wish to repeat the experience. If I could use RegEx with any confidence, all my tools would be done in JavaScript instead of VBScript.
I've never used Win2K. One difference between XP and Win98 is the way STDIN is handled. I would look there first. Generally, I like to consume it by using WScript.ReadAll
Edit: I've had a chance to examine your code. At Line:36, you have WScript.Quit inside your With Look block.
Quote from: script56.chm
Important Do not jump into or out of With blocks. If statements in a With block are executed, but either the With or End With statement is not executed, you may get errors or unpredictable behavior.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rob den Heijer on 2007-10-16 02:32 pm
Post by: Rob den Heijer on 2007-10-16 02:32 pm
Rick,
I am sorry that you examined regular expressions and did not quite get along.
I can, with tongue firmly in cheek, say that for me a life without regular expressions is not worth living.
That is because with them I can produce scripts (in my case in TSE, which unfortunately does not quite follow the world's accepted conventions) that are compact, comprehensive, (for me) easy to maintain, and lightning fast. But hey, so far I did not manage to convince many of the usefulness of reg.ex-es...
True, they can look like Klingon curses, but they do serve their purpose beautifully!
cheers,
Rob.
I am sorry that you examined regular expressions and did not quite get along.
I can, with tongue firmly in cheek, say that for me a life without regular expressions is not worth living.
That is because with them I can produce scripts (in my case in TSE, which unfortunately does not quite follow the world's accepted conventions) that are compact, comprehensive, (for me) easy to maintain, and lightning fast. But hey, so far I did not manage to convince many of the usefulness of reg.ex-es...
True, they can look like Klingon curses, but they do serve their purpose beautifully!
cheers,
Rob.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-16 02:46 pm
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-16 02:46 pm
Rick
Thanks for looking at this but it's not the code. I can verify that the code itself runs in under one second.
Even a simple
I guess we'll just have to differ on RestChords. Interestingly there is the same misalignment on split stem chords
Thanks for looking at this but it's not the code. I can verify that the code itself runs in under one second.
Even a simple
Code: [Select · Download]
wscript.echo "hello world"executes and then hangs for about ten seconds. PHP programs run as expected however.
I guess we'll just have to differ on RestChords. Interestingly there is the same misalignment on split stem chords
Code: [Select · Download]
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:2o|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:8th|Pos2:-3o,-2o|Color:0|Visibility:Default
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rick G. on 2007-10-16 03:02 pm
Post by: Rick G. on 2007-10-16 03:02 pm
Even a simpleCode: [Select · Download]wscript.echo "hello world"executes and then hangs for about ten seconds.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-16 04:30 pm
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-16 04:30 pm
Well I tried running "Hello World" outside NWC and it worked fine. No exit delay at all.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2007-10-16 08:05 pm
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2007-10-16 08:05 pm
A delay after execution of a script would imply that the process is not terminating in a timely fashion. NWC2 uses a CreateProcess call to start the user tool. NWC2 gives the tool/script 60 seconds in which to complete and return control back to NWC2, after which it terminates the process (thus aborting it).
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-24 02:34 pm
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-24 02:34 pm
NWC2 gives the tool/script 60 seconds in which to complete and return control back to NWC2
But my script returns after about twelve seconds so it is not being aborted in the manner you describe. There is an apparent delay in writing StdOut and returning control to NWC but otherwise the script seems to work correctly.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Warren Porter on 2007-10-24 03:56 pm
Post by: Warren Porter on 2007-10-24 03:56 pm
Just tried to install it but got an error
Following lines in edit of orig. message:
Tried again while running NWC2 and the user tool. Error at the same place but the error message was "input past end of file".
Code: [Select · Download]
Line 14
char 3
The handle is invalid
80070006
(null)
Following lines in edit of orig. message:
Tried again while running NWC2 and the user tool. Error at the same place but the error message was "input past end of file".
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-25 10:55 am
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-10-25 10:55 am
It works only when you select precisely two minims. Running it outside NWC2, or on an empty staff or with just one item selected will produce your error messages and I suppose code could be written to trap this but really life's too short ;-)
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rick G. on 2007-10-25 11:01 am
Post by: Rick G. on 2007-10-25 11:01 am
For normal minims, the tool works as you describe for WinXP and Win98.
For dotted minims, the tool adds dots to the 16th/32nd notes in addition to increasing the # of notes.
Edit: removed example as problem is now fixed.
For dotted minims, the tool adds dots to the 16th/32nd notes in addition to increasing the # of notes.
Edit: removed example as problem is now fixed.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-11-02 03:11 pm
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2007-11-02 03:11 pm
You're quite correct. It was a last minute decision to include articulations in the tremolo and this re-introduced the dots as well.
Now corrected in original post.
Now corrected in original post.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2012-12-14 12:03 pm
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2012-12-14 12:03 pm
User tool fixed to ignore Fake and Context lines.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rick G. on 2012-12-14 05:39 pm
Post by: Rick G. on 2012-12-14 05:39 pm
I have done something similar manually and without layering, but it requires placing the minim noteheads as text and doesn't always line up very well. Yours looks better.
Wonder if and when is this tool going to be rendered obsolete?
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.5)The "note chase" is a bit different.
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)|WithNextStaff:Layer
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab|Tonic:C
|Tempo|Tempo:60|Pos:9
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=7,Muted,HideRest|Dur2:Half|Pos2:1
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=7,Muted,HideRest|Dur2:Half|Pos2:-1
|Bar
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:1|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1z|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Spacer|Width:200
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:-1|Placement:AtNextNote
|Instrument|Name:"[+4] "|Trans:4|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127|Pos:11|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1z|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Instrument|Name:"[0] "|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127|Pos:7|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Spacer|Width:200
|Bar
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-1"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|StaffProperties|Volume:-1|StereoPan:-1
|Clef|Type:Treble|Visibility:Never
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab|Tonic:C|Visibility:Never
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=7,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:32nd,Grace|Pos:1^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:32nd,Grace|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=7,Beam=End,Muted
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2012-12-17 03:25 pm
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2012-12-17 03:25 pm
Interesting idea which doesn't quite work because it needs the second chord to be an exact transposition of the first.
However, muting the second chord and placing the first chord as grace notes in front of it achieves (nearly) the desired effect. But for some reason the playback mechanism renders the grace notes staccatissimo. This can be cured by a pedal or by muting a second (tied) grace note to let it ring. It probably doesn't matter at the speed a tremolo is usually played.
However, muting the second chord and placing the first chord as grace notes in front of it achieves (nearly) the desired effect. But for some reason the playback mechanism renders the grace notes staccatissimo. This can be cured by a pedal or by muting a second (tied) grace note to let it ring. It probably doesn't matter at the speed a tremolo is usually played.
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.5)
|Locale|ACP:1252
|Editor|ActiveStaff:1|CaretIndex:15|CaretPos:-6
|SongInfo|Title:""|Author:"<Name>"|Lyricist:""|Copyright1:"Copyright © 2012 <Name>"|Copyright2:"All Rights Reserved"
|PgSetup|StaffSize:16|Zoom:7|TitlePage:Y|JustifyVertically:Y|PrintSystemSepMark:N|ExtendLastSystem:N|DurationPadding:Y|PageNumbers:0|StaffLabels:None|BarNumbers:None|StartingBar:1
|Font|Style:StaffItalic|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:10|Bold:Y|Italic:Y|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffBold|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:StaffLyric|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:7|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageTitleText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:24|Bold:Y|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:12|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:PageSmallText|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User1|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User2|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User3|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User4|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User5|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|Font|Style:User6|Typeface:"Times New Roman"|Size:8|Bold:N|Italic:N|CharSet:0
|PgMargins|Left:1.27|Top:1.27|Right:1.27|Bottom:1.27|Mirror:N
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Group:"Standard"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Section Close|Visible:Y|BoundaryTop:12|BoundaryBottom:12|Lines:5|WithNextStaff:Layer|Color:Default
|StaffProperties|Muted:N|Volume:127|StereoPan:64|Device:0|Channel:1
|StaffInstrument|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab|Tonic:C
|Tempo|Tempo:60|Pos:9
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:1|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1z|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|SustainPedal|Pos:-11|Wide:Y|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:32nd,Grace|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:-1|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1z|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam,Muted
|SustainPedal|Status:Released|Pos:-11|Wide:Y|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:0|Placement:AtNextNote
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:2|Placement:AtNextNote
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:0z,2z|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:6,7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:0,2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:6,7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th,Grace|Pos:0^,2^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th,Grace|Pos:0,2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:6|Placement:AtNextNote
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:7|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:6z,7z|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam,Muted
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:6,7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:0,2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:6,7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:3,5,7
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rick G. on 2012-12-17 03:46 pm
Post by: Rick G. on 2012-12-17 03:46 pm
Interesting idea which doesn't quite work because it needs the second chord to be an exact transposition of the first.
Here is another:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.5)
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab|Tonic:C
|Tempo|Tempo:60|Pos:9
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:0|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:2|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:0z,2z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=8,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:6,7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:0,2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:6,7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:6^,7^|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:0^,2^|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"j "|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:6|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:7|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:0z,2z,6z,7z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=6,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:6,7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:0,2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:6,7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:3,5,7
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2012-12-17 04:52 pm
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2012-12-17 04:52 pm
Your exanple did indeed work, but the idea has its limitations.
Your next example merely mimics the second bar of mine (and doesn't/can't use your transposition trick). But I don't understand why you have tied muted grace notes to the second chord, when muting the chord itself achieves much the same thing and is simpler.
Your tied (let ring) grace notes are functionally the same as my tied grace notes pair with the second chord muted, and this suffers from the same problem of ringing through the next chord until cut off by its repetition
Your next example merely mimics the second bar of mine (and doesn't/can't use your transposition trick). But I don't understand why you have tied muted grace notes to the second chord, when muting the chord itself achieves much the same thing and is simpler.
Your tied (let ring) grace notes are functionally the same as my tied grace notes pair with the second chord muted, and this suffers from the same problem of ringing through the next chord until cut off by its repetition
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rick G. on 2012-12-17 09:29 pm
Post by: Rick G. on 2012-12-17 09:29 pm
Your exanple did indeed work, but the idea has its limitations.
Your next example merely mimics the second bar of mine
(and doesn't/can't use your transposition trick).
But I don't understand why you have tied muted grace notes to the second chord, when muting the chord itself achieves much the same thing and is simpler.
Your tied (let ring) grace notes are functionally the same as my tied grace notes pair with the second chord muted, and this suffers from the same problem of ringing through the next chord until cut off by its repetition
I would refer you to the documentation of the Grace Notes Command (http://ntworthy.com/nwc2/help/MNU_NOTEGRACE.htm)
Quote from: http://ntworthy.com/nwc2/help/MNU_NOTEGRACE.htm
[Grace notes] will steal time from the full (non-grace) note that follows them when the staff is played back.
I also take NoteWorthy's comments in this topic as further documentation: Muted notes and muted staves (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=6197.0)
In summary, the topic title is Working Tremolos. All of my examples here "work" in the sense that they display and sound as I would expect. However, this is the User Tools (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?board=7.0) board and as the topic starter, you own it. Since my replies do not deal with using a tool to create a tremolo, feel free to remove any of them as well as your references to them.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2013-03-24 08:56 pm
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2013-03-24 08:56 pm
No need for layered staffs any more – it's all done in situ!
Temporarily stymied by dotted notes throwing the rhythm out but now the dots are text as well. (And note to NW, suppressing number of dots in clusters technique might be more aesthetic than current treatment?)
Now I'd like to move on to tremolo on a single minim. But how do you get the beams (text or naturally) centred on the stem? I can achieve it using similar methods to the above but the beams show note stems, and I can't find a text font that has anything approaching a slanted beam. Help!
Temporarily stymied by dotted notes throwing the rhythm out but now the dots are text as well. (And note to NW, suppressing number of dots in clusters technique might be more aesthetic than current treatment?)
Now I'd like to move on to tremolo on a single minim. But how do you get the beams (text or naturally) centred on the stem? I can achieve it using similar methods to the above but the beams show note stems, and I can't find a text font that has anything approaching a slanted beam. Help!
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rick G. on 2013-03-25 01:20 am
Post by: Rick G. on 2013-03-25 01:20 am
I can't find a text font that has anything approaching a slanted beam. Help!
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.5)
|Font|Style:User1|Typeface:"NWC Extra Ornaments v3"|Size:16
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|Text|Text:"$ "|Font:User1|Pos:0|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3
|Text|Text:"% "|Font:User1|Pos:0|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3
|Text|Text:"^ "|Font:User1|Pos:1|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rick G. on 2013-03-25 07:46 am
Post by: Rick G. on 2013-03-25 07:46 am
There is aare twobugsin the RestChord construct that cause problems. Slurs (in their default state) are attached to the rest rather than to the note which makes slurring tricky and a strictly manual post operation.And stem up chords with a second don't work since the rest in the RestChord is positioned over the wrong note! (NW – It should be over the head note rather than the side note and then lined up with the other staffs as usual).
As for slurs, I'll just let the notation do the explaining:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposer(2.5)
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff"|Label:"tool"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:1|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:1z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=7,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:32nd,Grace|Pos:1^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:32nd,Grace|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:0|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:0z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=7,Beam=End,Muted
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|AddStaff|Name:"Staff-2"|Label:"should be:"
|StaffProperties|EndingBar:Open (hidden)
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Bar
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:1|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:1z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=7,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:32nd,Grace|Pos:1^|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=0,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:32nd,Grace|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=0,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Spacer|Width:50
|Text|Text:"j"|Font:StaffSymbols|Pos:0|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=7,Beam=End,Muted
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposer-End
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2013-03-25 09:08 am
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2013-03-25 09:08 am
You're quite right – but I used to. Entire comment removed!
And thank you for the font suggestion, although since the idea is to put pieces up on the web so that our members can use the viewer there could be a minor admin problem.
Slurred notes still don't quite work with the tool (it leaves a hanging slur) so I might try a modification, but in the meantime the error is easily corrected.
And thank you for the font suggestion, although since the idea is to put pieces up on the web so that our members can use the viewer there could be a minor admin problem.
Slurred notes still don't quite work with the tool (it leaves a hanging slur) so I might try a modification, but in the meantime the error is easily corrected.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Rick G. on 2013-03-25 08:35 pm
Post by: Rick G. on 2013-03-25 08:35 pm
since the idea is to put pieces up on the web so that our members can use the viewer there could be a minor admin problem.
I don't use a browser that supports NoteWorthy's plugin. Perhaps those who use one or more of the supported browsers can report on how well the plugin handles NWORN3.ttf
I can report that none of the fonts commonly included with Windows include glyphs suitable for NWC's use in a single note tremolo.
Title: Re: Working Tremolos
Post by: Flurmy on 2013-03-25 09:29 pm
Post by: Flurmy on 2013-03-25 09:29 pm
Peter,
using your tool with 16', the sound of the note obtained with two tied grace notes is truncated.
I can't understand why.
Bedtime...
using your tool with 16', the sound of the note obtained with two tied grace notes is truncated.
I can't understand why.
Bedtime...