NoteWorthy Composer Forum

Forums => Tips & Tricks => Topic started by: kahman on 2007-02-05 07:53 pm

Title: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: kahman on 2007-02-05 07:53 pm
In the NWC2 page setup box, there is a checkbox for "Extend Last System".  That, however, simply adds a large amount of space to the end of the piece instead of stretching the last system.  These instructions will show you how to extend the last system by stretching it.

1. In "Staff Properties", go to the "General" tab.  Under "Ending Bar", choose "Open (Hidden)"

2. At the end of the first staff, go to Insert-Decorated Bar Line, or b.  Choose whichever type of barline you like, and select "Force System Break" (Top Staff Only) 
Or, you can use:
Code: [Select · Download]
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|XBarCnt:N|SysBreak:Y|Color:0|Visibility:Default

There will be no line after, and the last line will be stretched.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2007-02-06 06:46 pm
See also:

FAQ - Is there a line break command?
http://ntworthy.com/composer/faq/33.htm
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: kahman on 2007-02-07 02:23 am
I admit I do have to ask: why isn't this done automatically with "Extend Last System"?
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: NoteWorthy Online on 2007-02-07 02:30 am
There actually is an old version that did this, but many complaints dictated the current behaviour.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Rick G. on 2007-02-07 02:39 am
I admit I do have to ask: why isn't this done automatically with "Extend Last System"?
I must admit that I must reply. In the beginning, there was no mechanism to force a system break. The current behaviour was introduced sometime after Force System Break, ostensibly as a feature.

Better question is: Why doesn't NoteWorthy just eliminate Ending Bar: and Extend last system?. A barline of your choice at the end is simple and logical. The extra options just confuse the newbies.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: fitzclan on 2007-02-07 03:00 am
Kahman, your instructions can be shortened  considerably. Simply go to the end of the top staff, press "b" (for barline), and check "force system break". Done!
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Randy Williams on 2010-02-23 02:36 am
Sorry to reply to an old topic, but has anyone figured out a better way to cleanly extend the last system and still get the ending bar displayed/printed?  If there is more than one staff, it is trivial to add an extra bar (with force system break) to only the first staff, and the other staff(s) will still bring out the ending bar.  But if I have only a single staff (just like the NW Online example above!), you can't get the clean extension in this way without losing the ending bar.  Right now, I am adding a dummy staff, with nothing but hidden whole rests and hidden bars, just to get the ending bar.  See the modified NW Online example attached.  Anything better out there?
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Rick G. on 2010-02-23 02:57 am
Anything better out there?
Just set Ending Bar:Open(hidden), insert the closing barline that you want and Force System Break.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Randy Williams on 2010-02-23 03:40 am
Ah, thanks Rick, I see it now.  You actually don't need to bother changing the Ending Bar to Open (Hidden), since it will not display or print anyway, due to the last "measure" being empty.  The key is that the final barline (with force system break) can be set to a Section Close style (assuming you have the "standard" Ending Bar, which is also Section Close style).  I'd never noticed before that the standard Ending Bar could be replicated elsewhere in a piece via a decorated barline style!  (Or that one could change the style of the Ending Bar itself!)  So the NW Online example probably should have showed this instead:
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Randy Williams on 2010-02-23 03:49 am
Having said you don't need to change the Ending Bar to Open (Hidden), now that I've (belatedly) tried it, I see that it is cleaner in edit (and view) mode to do so, even as it makes no difference for the printout.  Someone looking at this final example might wonder how the "Ending Bar" was suddenly editable (to set force system break for example)!  It is not at all clear that a "fake" ending bar has been added and the "real" one has been hidden.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Rick G. on 2010-02-23 04:09 am
now that I've (belatedly) tried it, I see that it is cleaner in edit (and view) mode to do so
Thanks. I keep suggesting this, but until now everyone has thought that I'm just goofy.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Opagust on 2010-12-14 04:34 pm
Quote
now that I've (belatedly) tried it, I see that it is cleaner in edit (and view) mode to do so
And also in the viewer!
Conclusion: I'll change my custom template to set the Ending Bar to "Open(Hidden)" for each Staff

Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: JNourse on 2010-12-31 03:07 am
I may not have understood all the posts here but I wonder why the last bar line on a staff which you can set to "Section Close or Master Repeat Close or Single or Double"  bar type does not just have a Force System Break(Top Staff Only)  added to the General tab  in the Staff properties ?
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Warren Porter on 2010-12-31 04:55 am
I may not have understood all the posts here but I wonder why the last bar line on a staff which you can set to "Section Close or Master Repeat Close or Single or Double"  bar type does not just have a Force System Break(Top Staff Only)  added to the General tab  in the Staff properties ?
That feature is always on so there is no reason to select it.  "Force System Break" is a possible attribute of any type of bar line, just select the bar line and Cntl/E.  Just check on "Force System Break" and click OK.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Lawrie Pardy on 2010-12-31 05:39 am
I may not have understood all the posts here but I wonder why the last bar line on a staff which you can set to "Section Close or Master Repeat Close or Single or Double"  bar type does not just have a Force System Break(Top Staff Only)  added to the General tab  in the Staff properties ?
I don't know NWC's reason, but I reckon that it is useful to be able to NOT fully justify the last system.  It is not uncommon to want the final system to reach only partway across the page.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Rick G. on 2010-12-31 07:25 am
The option to extend the last system belongs to the Page Setup Command (http://ntworthy.com/nwc2/help/MNU_PAGESETUP.htm), not to Staff Properties (http://ntworthy.com/nwc2/help/MNU_EDITSTAFF.htm), to the last bar on the top system, or anywhere else.

'Force System Break (Top Staff Only)' should do what it says and nothing else.

NWC should not print or reserve space for a system that contains no objects. This is NWC's current behavior.

Printed music need not end on a bar. It is prefectly valid to end on a chord, D.S., or any of a host of other objects. Even if it did, there is little reason to force it to appear during editing.

In accordance with the above:

/soapbox
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2010-12-31 06:15 pm
Quote
'Force System Break (Top Staff Only)' should do what it says and nothing else.

Well that's precisely what it does. It forces that bar-line to the right and writes anything following on the next system(s). And most importantly, it justifies the system.

Quote
NWC should not print or reserve space for a system that contains no objects. This is NWC's current behavior.

and if there's nothing else to write then, as you suggest, it doesn't write anything.

Quote
NWC should remove 'Ending Bar:' and its options from Staff Properties

So how would you set the ending bar to what you want if it's not in the menu? It's not editable as it stands.

Quote
'Force System Break (Top Staff Only)' should be modified so that it does not cause the final system to be extended.

This would cause inconsistent behaviour (see above). Forcing a justified line break is a property of the bar, not the page.

Quote
The only way to extend the last system should be via the Page Setup Command

Which with its present behaviour does not justify the contents of the system, and is why the line-break behavior on the final bar was implmented in the first place.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Rick G. on 2010-12-31 06:48 pm
So how would you set the ending bar to what you want if it's not in the menu?
Bar Line Command (http://ntworthy.com/nwc2/help/MNU_ADDBARLINE.htm).

It's not editable as it stands.
A good reason to get rid of it. It takes a lot of clicks/keystokes to edit a whole score's worth. I don't do that anymore, I use SyncStaves (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=7257.0) instead. I just set one staff to 'Open (hidden)' and let the tool do all the work.

I agree that NWC should justify the last system if it is to be extended. I just thought it was too obvious to include.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: William Ashworth on 2010-12-31 09:43 pm
Rick, I agree that the current method of justifying the last system isn't ideal. But I don't think getting rid of the ending bar of the staff should be part of the solution. You can actually do that now via the staff properties dialog, and I do it often on layered staves, but I find working with it a pain in the rear. When you place a barline and then leave the staff to work on something else, it's difficult to come back to the staff that has its end hidden and place the cursor after the last barline - it actually blinks before the barline when you do that, so you have no way of knowing whether or not you got it in the right place without doing something additional, like hitting <end>. OTOH, if the staff lines were to be extended beyond the final barline so you could always tell where the cursor was, those little barline tails would always be showing, even in the printout....unless there was a checkbox under barline properties to specifiy that a given barline was the end of the staff, and then we'd be pretty much right back where we are now.

I do think you are right that justifying the last system should be under <Page Setup>. But I don't think it should automatically be done when Extend Last System is checked. IIRC, when the Extend Last System command was first instituted, it acted exactly that way, and there were complaints. So Eric changed it to the form we have today and gave us the kludge of using the system break checkbox at the end of the system. What I would like to see is a separate "Justify Last System" checkbox under Page Setup. This would allow those folks who want the last measure to stretch a-a-a-all the way across the page to continue to have it that way. (For backward compatibility, the current behavior of the System Break command applied to the last barline of the top staff of a score should be retained.)

Cheers,

Bill
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Rick G. on 2011-01-01 04:01 am
Rick, I agree that the current method of justifying the last system isn't ideal. But I don't think getting rid of the ending bar of the staff should be part of the solution.
I don't propose that doing away with 'Ending Bar:' will help with justifying the last system. I only propose that when 'Extend Last System' is checked, that the last system be extended and justified.

You can actually do that now via the staff properties dialog.
True, but it is not the default. Nor are the standard templates set up that way. The new user usually only discovers 'How to cleanly extend the last system' after many months and then has many months of work to clean up. My problem is when I load clips from the forum, NWC insists on adding an absurd 'Section Close' that is not in the clip and often obscures the final object in the clip. All too often I need to remove the 'Ending Bar:' or add something at the end of the clip to see what the poster is seeing, since usually, the clip comes from mid-staff.
 
I find working with it a pain in the rear. When you place a barline and then leave the staff to work on something else, it's difficult to come back to the staff that has its end hidden ...
An excellent argument for NoteWorthy to fix the cursor visibility problem at the end of a staff, but not much of an argument for forcing everyone to constantly see a Section Close while editing a staff that has not yet reached its typographic end.

I do think you are right that justifying the last system should be under <Page Setup>. But I don't think it should automatically be done
when Extend Last System is checked.
So you think I nailed the right place, but checking Extend Last System shouldn't always extend the last system? I'm confused. Hopefully those contemplating purchase have stopped reading long before this :-)

(For backward compatibility, the current behavior of the System Break command applied to the last barline of the top staff of a score should be retained.)
The death of progress ...
NWC files contain version info. NWC has been quite good at converting old files into a new version. I suspect that this could be handled programatically and that "backward compatibility" would be a non-issue.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: William Ashworth on 2011-01-01 05:30 am
So you think I nailed the right place, but checking Extend Last System shouldn't always extend the last system? I'm confused. Hopefully those contemplating purchase have stopped reading long before this :-)
Hopefully those contemplating purchase will read what I wrote a little more carefully than you did ;-)

I didn't say "Extend Last System shouldn't always extend the last system." I said it shouldn't always justify the last system. Some people, for whatever cockeyed reason, like the Extend Last System command to behave in its current manner. See kahman's question and Eric's reply here (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5909.msg38733#msg38733). This is why I suggested a "Justify Last System" check box in addition to the "Extend Last System" check box. As for the "section close" at the end of every staff, I stand by my comments that this should be default behavior. However, I would support the addition of a score creation wizard that would lead newbies through choices such as whether or not to close the score with a section close - provided the wizard could be turned off. ("Close the score with a section close" - sounds self-evident to me. ;-)

Happy New Year and all the best of the season -

Bill
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Rick G. on 2011-01-01 05:42 am
Hopefully those contemplating purchase will read what I wrote a little more carefully than you did ;-)
Sorry, I did misread.
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: William Ashworth on 2011-01-01 06:17 am
Apology easily accepted, my friend.

- Bill
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: gpb14france on 2011-04-08 11:57 am
avec nwc2.1 faire :
notation properties
------> section close
--------> force system break
Ca fonctionne trés bien
Title: Re: [NWC2] How to cleanly extend the last system.
Post by: Flurmy on 2011-04-08 12:16 pm
C'est exactement ce que Kahman a écrit dans le premier message de ce sujet il y a beaucoup d'années, et en effet il fonctionne.