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NoteWorthy Composer Forum

Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Flurmy on 2014-02-23 10:30 AM

Title: Slowing down
Post by: Flurmy on 2014-02-23 10:30 AM
My aim is to slow down the second time, so I tried this way:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.51,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Key|Signature:C|Tonic:C
|Dynamic|Style:f|Pos:-11
|Tempo|Tempo:100|Pos:8|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-7|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-5,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-7|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|TempoVariance|Style:Ritardando|Pos:8|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-5,-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Ending|Endings:1|ClosedBracket:Y
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:#-9|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-7,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Ending|Endings:2
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:#-9|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-7,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Tempo|Tempo:50|Pos:8|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-6,-4,-3
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

As you can ear, that's not the case.
To begin with, it slows down the first time too (why?).
Then, when it reaches the "ritardando" for the second time, all of a sudden it restores the standard time and then slows down. (???)

I tried this way:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.51,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Key|Signature:C|Tonic:C
|Dynamic|Style:f|Pos:-11
|Tempo|Tempo:100|Pos:8|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-7|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-5,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-7|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|TempoVariance|Style:Ritardando|Pos:8|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-5,-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Ending|Endings:1|ClosedBracket:Y
|Tempo|Tempo:100|Pos:8|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:#-9|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-7,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Ending|Endings:2
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:#-9|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-7,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Tempo|Tempo:50|Pos:8|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-6,-4,-3
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

With my great surprise, now it never slows down.

It seems that the tempo indications are not subjected to the special endings parser.
Title: Re: Slowing down
Post by: Rick G. on 2014-02-23 01:43 PM
Quote from: Flurmy –
My aim is to slow down the second time,
Try this:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.51,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Key|Signature:C|Tonic:C
|Dynamic|Style:f|Pos:-11
|Tempo|Tempo:100|Pos:8|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-7|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-5,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-7|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Ending|Endings:1|Visibility:Never
|Ending|Endings:2|Visibility:Never
|TempoVariance|Style:Ritardando|Pos:8|Visibility:Never
|Ending|Endings:1,2|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-5,-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Ending|Endings:1|ClosedBracket:Y
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:#-9|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-7,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Ending|Endings:2
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:#-9|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-7,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Tempo|Tempo:50|Pos:8|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-6,-4,-3
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
or try the attachment which uses a different approach.
Title: Re: Slowing down
Post by: Flurmy on 2014-02-23 08:46 PM
Good workaround, thank you Rick!

Still, I don't understand why I need it.
What's the logic?

P.S. The hidden tempo staff trick is too complicated in my real score.
Title: Re: Slowing down
Post by: Rick G. on 2014-02-24 06:30 AM
Quote from: Flurmy –
thank you Rick!
You are welcome. I view my solutions here as standard notation rather than workarounds or tricks.

Quote from: Flurmy –
Still, I don't understand why I need it.
You need to tell NWC not to perform the "ritard." on the first pass. Special Endings are the standard way to do this.

Quote from: Flurmy –
What's the logic?
I don't know if logic is the correct word, but here is NoteWorthy's description:
Quote from: http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/nwc2/help/MNU_TEMPOVARIANCE.htm
The other marks (Accelerando, Allargando, Rallentando, Ritardando, Ritenuto, Rubato, and Stringendo) do not use a predefined delay. They scan on both sides of the variance event to find the presence of tempo marks. If they are found, then the change from one tempo to the next is introduced gradually at a rate determined by the distance up to the next tempo mark. If a tempo mark is not found either before or after the variance mark, then no change in the tempo is introduced into the play back of the staff/score.

It appears that "before" and "after" are meant in a visual sense rather than a logical or musical sense, e.g.:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.51,Single)
|Tempo|Tempo:100|Pos:8
|TempoVariance|Style:Ritardando|Pos:13
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Ending|Endings:7
|Tempo|Tempo:16|Pos:8
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
I don't see any bugs here.
Title: Re: Slowing down
Post by: Flurmy on 2014-02-24 07:45 AM
Quote
It appears that "before" and "after" are meant in a visual sense rather than a logical or musical sense
That's exactly what I meant with "It seems that the tempo indications are not subjected to the special endings parser."

Quote
I don't see any bugs here.
Well, at least we can say that's not very intuitive.
What's the logic behind that choice?
Title: Re: Slowing down
Post by: William Ashworth on 2014-02-24 03:19 PM
Sticking my oar in here....

The parser, being a computer program and not a performer, processes things in the order in which they appear in the file, not in musical order. If the file includes an instruction to leap backward or forward in the file to a certain point, it can do that, but then it just starts processing things in order again from that point. Special endings (and other computer flow instructions) include a counter that is incremented each time the program comes to the instruction, so it knows how many times it has been there and can execute different instructions accordingly. Ritards (and other similar purely musical instructions) don't have a counter, so the program can't be told to follow them conditionally. It would be possible to include a counter, and give the user access to it through an attribute of the "ritard" command, but so far that hasn't been done, and I can understand why Eric would consider other things more important to be added or worked on.

The file is apparently stored in the order that symbols appear in the score, so "backward" and "forward" in the file would also have to be in this order. Since NWC's primary purpose is to produce a printed score, this order makes perfect sense to me.
Title: Re: Slowing down
Post by: Rick G. on 2014-02-25 09:34 AM
Quote from: Flurmy –
P.S. The hidden tempo staff trick is too complicated in my real score.
Nothing in the hidden tempo staff is complicated. Give NWC an intial tempo to contemplate, add a ritard where you want that tempo to start and another tempo where you want the ritard to end. Unrolling the flow in a hidden staff and being simple and explicit removes complexities. At worst it requires some math, and math is hard ...
Title: Re: Slowing down
Post by: Flurmy on 2014-02-25 10:51 AM
Quote
Unrolling the flow in a hidden staff and being simple and explicit removes complexities. At worst it requires some math, and math is hard ...

That's it.

In the actual score there are many refrains and to unroll all of them is a p.i.t.a., with the added burden of having a staff (the hidden one) completely out of synch with the others and much longer.
Very error prone, for my taste.

Your first suggestion is my way to go.
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