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NoteWorthy Composer Forum

Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Flurmy on 2013-10-06 11:09 AM

Title: Grace notes and ties
Post by: Flurmy on 2013-10-06 11:09 AM
I discovered that, for the grace notes, the ties are not considered.
The grace notes only steal time from the first note.
Listen to the mordent here:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble|OctaveShift:Octave Up
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Note|Dur:16th,Triplet=First,Slur|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th,Triplet,Slur|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th,Triplet=End,Slur|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th,Triplet=First,Slur|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th,Triplet,Slur|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th,Triplet=End,Slur|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Rest|Dur:16th
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Rest|Dur:16th
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace,Slur|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace,Slur|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:2^|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:16th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

I think it shouldn't be so.
Title: Re: Grace notes and ties
Post by: Rick G. on 2013-10-06 11:54 AM
Good catch. A simple fix:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.5,Single)
|Tempo|Tempo:40|Pos:12
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:2^|Opts:Stem=Down|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:2^|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Title: Re: Grace notes and ties
Post by: Flurmy on 2013-10-06 12:23 PM
Rick, you're incredible!
How do you think things like that?

Thank you for the workaround.
Title: Re: Grace notes and ties
Post by: Rick G. on 2013-10-06 01:13 PM
Quote from: Flurmy –
How do you think things like that?
Grace Notes Command (http://ntworthy.com/nwc2/help/MNU_NOTEGRACE.htm):
Quote
grace notes ... will steal time from the full (non-grace) note that follows them when the staff is played back.
Knowing this, I figured that if all the time is stolen, the "full (non-grace) note" will not play. Your clip verifies this.
I know from experience that once grace notes exhaust a "following note", they steal time from the next one.
Grace notes do not steal time from one another.
Therefore, to insure that the principal note sounds, tie a grace note into the principal note.
QED :)
Title: Re: Grace notes and ties
Post by: Flurmy on 2013-10-06 07:06 PM
All the rest was known to me.

This was the missing tile:
Quote
I know from experience that once grace notes exhaust a "following note", they steal time from the next one.
Title: Re: Grace notes and ties
Post by: Peter Edwards on 2013-10-07 11:34 AM
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.51,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Tempo|Tempo:40|Pos:9
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Text|Text:"1"|Font:User2|Pos:-9|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1
|Rest|Dur:16th
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:1^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Text|Text:"2"|Font:User2|Pos:-9|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1
|Rest|Dur:16th
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Text|Text:"3"|Font:User2|Pos:-9|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1
|Rest|Dur:16th
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Spacer|Width:50
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Spacer|Width:50
|Text|Text:"4"|Font:User2|Pos:-9|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1
|Rest|Dur:16th
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Text|Text:"5"|Font:User2|Pos:-9|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1
|Rest|Dur:16th
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Spacer|Width:50
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"6"|Font:User2|Pos:-9|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Spacer|Width:50
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

1 and 2 sound as expected.
3 and 4, there's no stealing of time, both pitches sound together.
5 and 6, why does visibility matter?
Title: Re: Grace notes and ties
Post by: Rick G. on 2013-10-07 04:49 PM
Quote from: Peter Edwards –
1 and 2 sound as expected.
Only because the pitch doesn't change. Otherwise, notes are turned on and off as in examples 3 and 5. IMO, playback is at odds with NWC's documentation.

Quote from: Peter Edwards –
5 and 6, why does visibility matter?
I believe that this is your answer:
Quote from: NoteWorthy Online –
An experimental change is also added that treats Visibility=Never, inwardly tied grace notes in a similar fashion.
With the exception of the changes described in Muted notes and muted staves (https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=6197.0), I am not seeing changes from NWC 1.75. I used the Export Command (http://ntworthy.com/nwc2/help/MNU_FILEEXPORT.htm) on both Flurmy's and Peter's clips and converted the resulting NWC 1.75 files to MIDI using a 2004 copy of NWC2MID.EXE
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