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Messages - Ewan Harwood

1
General Discussion / Re: Writing a Symphony
First the glib bit - you can guarantee you'll get the out of tune characteristics of a horn - there are two piccolos!

As for the "third overtone octaves are sharp, fifth overtone - flat" bit:  It could be argued that according to just temperament. all octaves above the equal temperament fifth (i.e. E, or the third "overtone", assuming the piano is tuned to A440) are slightly flat, and all octaves above the third (C# or fifth overtone) are noticebly sharp!  Brass and string players probably would (and would complain that the accompanying piano is out of tune, especially in flat keys).
2
General Discussion / Re: Silly notation
I'm calling foul!  Harp is a special case.  We know you just ignore all the rules of enharmonic spelling, write something you have worked out the pedalling for, give it to the harpist, and then just accept that - no matter how you've written it - the harpist will change it all, smile at you and say "thank you for trying".  (Well, that's orchestral harp - Celtic harp appear to have a very similar approach to chromatic notes!)

3
General Discussion / Re: Silly notation
I think this is a tricker problem than first appears.  K.A.T. is right that there are some players would prefer correct spelling (and I'm usually one), because it's less confusing.  On the other hand, David is right that there are some players who prefer the familiar, because it's less confusing!

I have just sung a piece for a composer friend of mine.  She's very competent, and also plays organ professionally.  Her score only had C# Eb F# G# and Bb for the "black" notes.  It's how she thinks.  I had to import into NWC and convert to enharmonically correct, because there was no way I can sing F# to Bb (except in G minor).

I have had low A# for bassoon.  It's very rare, and only likely when playing the bottom note of a first inversion F# chord.  It definitely looks odd, but I think a Bb would have felt just wrong.

Perhaps I would suggest that music for players who are not yet ready for unusual sharps and flats (and double sharps and flats) probably shouldn't have any.  But if you do get D#, your conductor must think you're competent enough.
4
General Discussion / Re: Writing a Symphony
Quote from: K.A.T. –
... Isn't it a horn with celeste playing "fifths" above and piccolo a 17th above?  Don't have a score handy, but that's what's in my memory...

Don't say I've mis-remembered!  Here's what Wikipedia says:

"While the melody continues to be played in C throughout, from the middle onwards other instruments double it in different keys. The first such doubling involves a horn playing the melody in C, while a celeste doubles it 2 and 3 octaves above and two piccolos play the melody in the keys of G and E, respectively. This functions as a reinforcement of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th overtones of each note of the melody. The other significant "key doubling" involves sounding the melody a 5th above or a 4th below, in G major. Other than these "key doublings," Ravel simply harmonizes the melody using diatonic chords."

So, we've both got it not quite right!  Horn at pitch, 15th and 22nd celeste, 12th or 19th piccolo, 17th or 24th piccolo (I suspect the upper octaves).  Wikipedia states 1st overtone, which is the second harmonic, which would be the 8ve, but none of the instruments listed plays an octave.  I agree a check of the score is needed.
5
General Discussion / Re: Writing a Symphony
Quote from: David Palmquist –
Ewan didn't express a difference in musical taste, he was challenging your statement :
At that point he was talking about using the voices of instruments, the orchestration.
Agreed - I know Ravel didn't really like the piece, and I accept he didn't think he was trying to do anything special, except the crescendo.  But in my view, it's still the most accessible piece to hear that particular orchestration technique.

Sorry for the late reply - we've had a little horsie-race in Australia, and we're all obliged to be away from work for an extended weekend.
6
General Discussion / Re: Writing a Symphony
Quote from: William Ashworth –
that is really the only effect you can study in that piece

If I may, I would like to disagree!  It's probably the most accessible way to hear how get an organ sound without an organ - the section where the sax has the tune, and one piccolo is a 12th above, and the other piccolo is a 17th above, simulating a mutation stop on a pipe organ.  It's also very easy to hear what you can do with high bassoon (along with Rite of Spring).
7
General Discussion / Re: font with circled numbers?
There is also an excellent font called Combinumerals (possibly freeware?)  It lets you create the same single digits in circles, but also double digits (for your 88-string guitar) and selected other symbols.  You get [shadow=red,left][glow=black,2,300]reverse[/glow][/shadow]  if you use bold.  There is also an expensive version that allows three-digit numbers, and other extensions.

8
General Discussion / Re: Future Plans for NWC2?
I suspect that NWC development will be "as Eric can fit it in".  In my view, it's obvious that Eric is a bright person, who has designed some software that bright people (that's us) like to use.  I know we're bright, because of our forum content and manner.  I know Eric is bright for the same reasons, and because he's written software that works really well for bright people.

But because Eric is a bright person, he will have a thousand other projects, each equally interesting.  I'd say, that like most of us, he's idea-rich and time-poor.

That's my bright idea, anyway!
9
General Discussion / Re: Input Methods
I'm in the minor leagues too.  But I also use LH for shift, ctrl and shft-ctrl, (and for escape).  Never learned to use the right-"function" keys much.  My right-alt and right-shift are nearly as dusty as Scroll-Lock.  I do use right-ctrl-O to open files, particularly NWC files.
10
General Discussion / Re: OT: absolute pitch
The "perfect pitch" thing puzzles me too.  I sometimes have it, especially for the instruments I've played a lot - piano and bassoon - which supports Rob's statement, but also for guitar, which I've never played, and have had very little exposure to.  Then there are days where I'm a semitone out (because I played a high-pitch harmonium for several years when I didn't have a piano, and yet other days when I have no idea where the note is.  So I guess I have imperfect perfect pitch.

I was thinking perhaps it's how we see colour.  Most of us know when something is green, even if the computer monitor has too much "red" and the green is really a greyish murk.  We're able to look at the murk and say "yes, it's murk, but it really should be green".  In the same way we're able to tell when something is "white" in a sepia mono-chrome.

Do we have "perfect hue", " absolute hue", "very good relative hue", or what?

(Glad this topic is OT! and please read "color", "gray", and whatever other variant you prefer.)
11
General Discussion / Re: OT: absolute pitch
There's still the matter of absolute pitch.  The problem is seeing a G (on alto), playing a G, but hearing a Bb.  This still happens to me when I have to use the transpose button on a keyboard, especially if the transposition is large - a fourth or fifth.

If the solutions the learned gentlefolk give above work, then there's no need to discuss it further - it would only create problems.  But if your student still has trouble turning off his "absolute", maybe try these:

  • get him to "just keep at it", knowing he is playing "wrong" notes, and eventually it might just work.  Or he might just get used to playing "wrong" notes.
  • get him to practise sight-transposition - grab anything, and play it up a tone, down a minor third, etc.  Eventually he will be able to transpose anything, and will go through life transposing like a geneticist.  This is an invaluable skill to have - you can play flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon, bass clarinet parts with ease on an appropriate sax.
  • try to find a C melody sax (there are also C soprano saxen).
  • transfer to flute, oboe, bassoon, keyboards or some other concert pitch instrument (which is no good for you as a teacher).
12
General Discussion / Re: 'forced break' not working for me
Quote from: David Palmquist –
I'm not sure why you'd want to make the bar line invisible, but if you want to, just highlight it, then press Control-E, Notation Properties/Visibility=Never.

My misunderstanding of the OP's question.  I thought it was something like Gregorian Chant, with 87½ quarter notes to the bar, that needed to wrap on the printed page.

I also should have said to put invisible bar lines on all the other staves too.  And I remembered about the "Exclude from Bar Count", but too late - you've given the answer much quicker.
13
General Discussion / Re: 'forced break' not working for me
On the top staff, put a bar line where you want the break.  Make the bar-line invisible, and make it a force-break.  This will muck up your auto bar numbering, if you use it.  Don't Audit Barlines on that staff ever again.

If you think you might need Audit Barlines, try this instead:  Add a new staff.  Move it to the top.  Fill it with invisible rests and bar lines.  Layer it with the next staff.  Continue as above.
15
General Discussion / Re: Keeping beamable notes unbeamed
Here's a case where I've wanted this too:  when you have 3 quavers finishing a phrase, then a pause on the third or caesura after it, and then the 4th quaver as the pick-up to the next phrase.

I've found it's either manually adjusting after auto-beam, or you can replace the 4th quaver with an invisible rest, and put the real 4th quaver on a layered staff.  Depends what you find more tedious - manually adjusting each time, or all the bother of setting up the properties of an extra staff just for a few notes.

Would love to hear of other solutions using clever grace-notes or something!
16
General Discussion / Re: Restrictions for NWC2 Beta...
Congrats on your CD!  I have to admit that I too thought it was a bit unfair, until I realised just how much value I'd already got out of NWC1 that the later-purchasers hadn't.

Cheers, Ewan
17
General Discussion / Re: Restrictions for NWC2 Beta...
[EDIT before actually posting:  Started typing this two messages ago, and have been delayed.  Don't think the two replies change anything.  I think my Second point might be most relevant.]

First - NWC never promised an eternal license.  In my manual for NWC 1, on page 1, there is the text "The name and code ... will register any shareware version 1.* release of Noteworthy Composer ... " .  I don't think you will find anyone who find anything better for NWC 1.  I'm not at all convinced that NWC is being unethical.

Second - my copy of the shareware cost USD39 just over seven years ago.  So you've had the use of the software for $3.90 (at most) per year.  Newer users pay much more per year than you have.  You could argue that NWC is being unethical because it hasn't reduced its price for old software.  I wouldn't argue that, though.

Third - it would be difficult to find a software company that offers free upgrades, unless the next release is known to be imminent.   But read this, quoted directly from NWC (http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/nwc2/):
Quote
If you are currently considering purchase of NoteWorthy Composer Version 1.75b direct from NoteWorthy Software, with your purchase, you will be shipped a version 1.75b CD, you can participate in the beta test if you like, and you will be granted a license to download and use version 2 when it is released. Our plan is to make the download available for a limited time upon the official release of Version 2.

In other words, if you shell out the $15 upgrade now, you get a license to use NWC 2 when it appears, as well as a license to use NWC Beta now.  There is no way you will get a cheaper license for NWC2.

Sure, there are some late-purchasers of NWC1 who appear to have gotten a better deal than you.  But if you do the sums, you'll come out ahead, simply because you've had so much use of NWC1:
  • you've used NWC1 for 10 years, paying $39
  • let's assume you pay the $15 upgrade now, enrol in NWC2 Beta now, and upgrade to NWC2 when it is released
  • let's assume you use NWC2 Beta/NWC2 for another 10 years
  • Total cost is $54 over 20 years, for $2.70 per year
Now take a new user who pays $39 for 1.75b CD who buys today:
  • assume the person immediately enrols in NWC2 Beta, and upgrades to NWC2 when it is released
  • assume the person uses NWC2 Beta/NWC2 for 10 years
  • Total cost is $39 over 10 years, for $3.90 per year
Who's better off?  Yes, there will be people who bought 1.75b CD a couple of years ago, who will pay less than $3.90 per year.  I bought 1.55b at the end of 1999 for $39, paid the $15 upgrade in mid 2004.  Assuming I use NWC2 Beta/NWC2 for ten years (let's assume end of 2016 to get a whole number of years), I end up paying $3.18 per year.

Fourth - software developers need to eat, pay the mortgage/rent.  If they only earn money from new sales, they will spend all their time creating completely new products and selling them, rather than spending time improving products.  I would hate to be stuck with NWC1.55b, which leads to ...

Finally - for the cost of $15 dollars, you are denying yourself access hairpin dynamics, different note-heads, selectable font for engraving, very powerful user-tools (and the ability to edit your work in a text-editor, if that's your thing), improved staff labels, improved accidentals tied across barlines, and a whole lot more that I now probably take for granted.  I kept NWC 1 on my system for a short while, but haven't touched it for more than two years.



19
General Discussion / NWC 2.11 BUG Vanishing Music
In an effort to resolve the clef/space issue, I've been playing around with the order of my layered staves.
  • Version 1 is the original (the same piece I posted recently for Title Text).  The three right-hand, then three left-hand staves are for:
    • top: adding extra bar lines to use up auto-numbers, to allow a "cut" [bars 13 - 20 have been cut].  This is a work-around because we can't set a specific display value for a particular bar line.  I also need to re-start displaying bar 1 at bar 77.  I probably don't need the LH top staff.
    • middle: "cue" staff, with the staff colour a lighter grey - to allow beaming to appear correctly.  This is a work-around for complex cue notes.
    • bottom: the majority of the notation.  This needs to go below the grey staff so that the staff lines print in black.
  • Version 2 has the top three staves in a different order.  This is not the staff order I would use, but one I stumbled across.  See what happens in Print Preview (page 2).
20
General Discussion / Re: Page Text Alignment/Placement
I had half forgotten they were there, but I've avoided using fonts for this in the past as the spacing can be tricky (especially when you start forcing bar-lines for better page-turns) and they don't transpose.  I also feel that this should somehow be part of NWC and am just a bit stubborn about it. See https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=4278.0.  (I'm thinking of a fourth type of accidental - one placed above the note, above the staff.  Useful for turning a bassoon part into a bari sax part.)

Usually my solution is to put the extra accidentals where I want, and then never audit.  Having said that, I might give them a try.  Have you set the symbols to use any particular text spacing?  Does the forum have any hints?  Layered staff just for courtesy accidentals?
21
General Discussion / Re: Page Text Alignment/Placement
I sometimes use the "top 6" fonts for other purposes, not because I've run out of slots, but to ensure the text appears consistent.  For example, I use Page Title Text font for the title of the next song when it starts on the next staff (see the example I've attached).  Usually I'd prefer this to be Page-centred (as Rick's proposal), but sometimes it would clash with other things on the page, so I place it using normal text placement options.  I with David about the extra alignment choices.

The other place I regularly use Page Title Text is for a V.S. when it's a bad page turn.  I use Page Small Text for rehearsal comments that don't need to be noticed, such as "cut 21-28", and usually at 6 point.  It means tiny page numbers, but they're also unimportant when you're playing.

Fonts in the attachment are: Swing Text 11,11,11,24,16,8, then SwingDings 20, SwingDings 11, (unused), Combinumerals 24, WingDings 20, SwingChords 12.  Combinumerals are for a white number on a black circle, and WingDings for an up arrow and a down arrow.

The attachment also shows very wide semiquavers (mentioned in another thread) and how I try to deal with them, where bar number re-starting would be good, and how I live with the lack of reminder and courtesy accidentals.  Also standard work-arounds for multibar rests and courtesy time/key signature changes at the ends of staves.
22
General Discussion / Re: Beta 2.09 coming soon
Thanks for the very swift fix!  I continued working on my non-internet home computer on 2.08.  I've arrived at work this morning to find 2.10.  I've installed, and it's working just fine.
23
General Discussion / Re: Beta 2.09 coming soon
Lawrie, they're fantastic.  I write out a lot of theatre parts - to save page-turns, to make cuts easier to navigate etc.  The Swing fonts make the music just that bit more playable, somehow!

Let's see how well-versed our community is:  The test file I submitted is the beginning of a song from a well known show.  I changed the name to protect against potential copyright problems.  Anyone recognise it?



24
General Discussion / Re: Beta 2.09 coming soon
Whereas I do have an error.  My bar-lines no longer align.  They were fine this morning (Australian time) with 2.08.  I've just installed 2.09.  I've tried re-booting, but that didn't change anything.

I'm using Mr Lawrie Pardy's Swing Text for all the standard fonts (at 11,11,11,24,16,8 points), and SwingDings at 20 point in User 1.  My staff size is 19 point.

I've removed most of the piece, as the problem presents very early.  The layered staves are for stuff that happens later.

Cheers,
Ewan

EDIT:  The problem occurs in print preview.  Printing the page doesn't fix it.
25
General Discussion / Re: Transposing Horn in F to Alto Saxophone
I've played that piece!  (But on bassoon, where I'll guarantee there were clef changes.)

It answers definitively what the transposition is:  The C below the bass staff must be for the "extended" instrument, and the alternate octave above for the "standard" instrument.  This means, that in bass clef, the transposition is only a major 2nd, not a major 9th.

I agree that staying in treble clef would have been better.  But I can't agree with Rick G. about using 8va basso.  Unlike keyboards, the fingering on woodwinds is different in different octaves,  Often the basic notes in lower registers are practically the same - notes with the main fingers up or down, with maybe an octave/speaker/whisper key - but the chromatic notes are much less often similar.  (The bassoon has four very different Eb fingerings.)  The clarinets are worst, as they overblow a perfect 12th, so there are no similar fingerings for an octave - at least in the first two registers!  For all woodwinds, the higher registers usually need an odd arangement of "buttons and levers" to help stabilise the particular harmonic, adjust the intonation etc, so the fingerings can be very inconsistent.  For bassoon (because I know it best!) the C major scale from middle C (for piano) to the C above has the intervals C-D, E-F and B-C' as the only ones were just a single finger is lifted.  All the rest have fingers going everywhere.  And in the same scale, only C and D are similar to the notes an octave below.  (For the C# major scale, there isn't a single easy interval for fingering, and only the first C# is similar the the octave below.)




26
General Discussion / Re: Chord Names
Your first chord of interest is F7 on Eb.  This could also be called an F "dominant" seventh (on Eb), or a third-inversion F chord.  It's tending towards a Bb chord next, but you've given in a nice twist with ...

In your last measure there are two distinct chords.  I would suggest that the first is a D7sus4.  This flows nicely to a D7 as the second chord in the measure.  But to help your performer, the Gb would be better written as an F#.

If you had a fourth measure, I bet the chord would be some sort of G minor.
27
General Discussion / Re: Transposing Horn in F to Alto Saxophone
David, I'm surprised it happened even once in a concert band!  I was thinking of older un-modernised orchestra editions.  Your concert band piece must have been a very old edition indeed.

Hi Rob - haven't seen you for ages!  But it might be that I haven't been here as much, as you can tell by my whopping number of posts.
28
General Discussion / Re: Transposing Horn in F to Alto Saxophone
Quote from: carlsson –
... I'm not sure there ever is a situation where you transpose a bass part and retain the bass clef, but I could be wrong. ...
When horns switch to bass clef, they're still transposed.  (Search this site for discussion about details of the transposition.  It's not straightforward!)

In "olden times", bass clarinets used to read transposed bass clef (a tone transposition - just like ordinary clarinets).  But it's only older editions that still have these parts.

There's also the "claytons" transposition of exactly an octave for contrabass, contrabassoon, organ pedals, bass guitar, but only a completeist would insist that these were as valid.

29
General Discussion / Re: Transposing Horn in F to Alto Saxophone
Quote from: badbeeker –
... The sax part has horn queue notes  which I'm trying to match to the horn part itself with no luck. ...
The cue notes on the sax part will be in the saxophone's transposition - not the horn's.  This would be why you can't find a match.  Instead, look for the sax notes but one note lower.  Do you have bar numbers or rehearsal letters?  If all else fails, you can count bars from the beginning.

What Lawrie says - + 2 semitones - is correct.  You can check at the end:  Your alto sax key signature should have two more sharps than your horn key signature (or two fewer flats).
30
General Discussion / Re: bak files.
Just rename the extension - change BAK to NWC - in explorer, a DOS window, a unix emulator, or however you deal with files.
31
General Discussion / Re: Midi Channels
I'm usually scoring for musical theatre, which uses a lot of woodwind colours, and a fairly uniform string sound.  Here's what I do when I'm using NWC for sound (rather than printed parts):
1   Usually spare.  (When I send a patch-change to my synth, it alters the "common" effects.  In the middle of a piece, this can be quite drastic.  I have work-arounds, but they apply to my synth only, so I won't bother here.)  If I really need it, piccolo.
2   Flute (and piccolo, using a flute patch up an octave).
3   Oboe or English Horn (you never get both together).  Also often Alto Sax.
4   Clarinets
5   Bass Clarinet (I have a distinct bass clarinet patch and it really sounds better).  Also Tenor often Sax.
6   Bassoon.  Also often Bari Sax.
7   Horns (and tuba using a horn patch, for the infrequent times they appear).
8   Trumpets or muted trumpets (they never appear together)
9   Trombone (or muted)
10   un-tuned Percussion
11   Kettle Drums or Mallet Percussion
12   Piano
13   Harp
14   Strings 1 (arco, tremolo or pizz.)  Usually "High" strings.
15   Strings 2 (arco, tremolo or pizz.)  Usually "Low" strings.
16   Bass (contrabass for arco, acoustic bass for pizz.)

Like Tina, my channels appear pretty much in score order.  I try for this, no matter what the instrumentation.  If I really need five discrete string patches, they get 11 to 16, and "tuned percussion and miscellaneous" goe to 9, 8, ...

For Saxen, I use whichever woodwind channels are currently doing nothing.  I also "borrow" for obscure instruments - accordion, a 2nd mallet, organ, solo violin etc.  I agree with Tina that the horn patch usually gives a better Tuba sound (I think it's even better than the tuba patch!).

If I'm using NWC for printed parts, the woodwinds change to:
2   Book 1 (which might be piccolo, flute 1, alto sax 1)
3   Book 2 (which might be clarinet 1, flute 2, alto sax 2)
4   Book 3 (which might be clarinet 2, flute 3, tenor sax 1)
5   Book 4 (which might be oboe, English horn, clarinet 3, tenor sax 2)
6   Book 5 (which might be bassoon, bass clarinet, bari sax)
using patch changes ([glow=gray,1,300]now with transposition[/glow] in NWC2) when players swap instruments.  For strings, I still use 14 & 15 as the paper doesn't care about the sound.  If I have to use the file both for parts and sound, I'll mute notes where they overlap to prevent phasing.
32
General Discussion / Re: Problem using repeat bars and DC al Coda
Always Editing Printable (as Score Processor) for me.  For me, printed music is a complex graph ("chart" for Excel users), with time along the X-axis.  When composing/arranging/editing, I usually need to know what several parts are doing at any given time.  The Editing Playable (as Sequencer) doesn't allow you to check easily.  Here's an example.  See how the final key/time change of the bottom staff aligns with a different one in the middle staff!  Also, with the playback, if you're following the notes on the top staff, by the time you get to the end, you can no longer see the bottom staff (unless you have your very wide screen at zoom level 2 - 33%).  Apologies for the amount of screen space the Clips take!

Top Staff
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|Tempo|Tempo:144|Pos:9
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:1
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:Bb
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:b0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-3
|Key|Signature:C|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Key|Signature:C|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:Bb
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Key|Signature:C|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Middle Staff
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:6
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:3
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:1
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:Bb
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:6
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:4
|Key|Signature:C|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:5
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5
|Key|Signature:C|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:Bb
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Key|Signature:C|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:7
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:4
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Bottom Staff
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-8
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-8
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:7
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-8
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-8
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:Bb
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-5
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-5
|Key|Signature:C|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:6/8
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4
|Key|Signature:C|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:Bb
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Key|Signature:C|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:F#
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:3
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:-4
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
33
General Discussion / Re: Muting chord members in string harmonics
Continuing on from Rick G.'s sample, I thought to try a simplification.  I simply left out the hidden-tied-grace-note for the sounding note (Peter Edward's first step in his summary).   THIS DOES NOT WORK - the triplet is sounded staccato.

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Instrument|Name:"Flute"|Patch:73|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127|Pos:8
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:0X^|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:Half|Pos:-2,0
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:2z^|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th,Triplet=First|Pos:0,2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:1X^|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th,Triplet|Pos:-1,1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:0X^|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Chord|Dur:16th,Triplet=End|Pos:-2,0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:4th
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
34
General Discussion / Dots and double-dots in two-voice staves - bug?
I've found a quirky and almost insignificant bug.
Make sure you know how to Undo.  Select (highlight) all of the sample.  Click on the dot or double-dot toggle buttons.  When the up- and down-stem parts are both notes, or if the up- and down-stem items have different durations, everything works as expected.  It only happens when you have a note in one voice and a rest of the same duration in the other.

The rest works fine, but the other voice gets dot-retentive.  Any dots the note gains, it never loses!  The work-around is simply Undo, or delete the greedy note and replace with one of the correct value.

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th|Pos2:2
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Down,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th|Pos2:2
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-2
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th|Pos2:2
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Down,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:2
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:-2
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:4th,DblDotted|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:4th,DblDotted|Pos2:2
|RestChord|Dur:4th,DblDotted|Opts:Stem=Down,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th,DblDotted|Pos2:2
|RestChord|Dur:4th,DblDotted|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th,DblDotted|Pos2:-2
|Bar|Style:Double
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up
|Bar
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th|Pos2:2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down,ArticulationsOnStem|Dur2:4th,Dotted|Pos2:2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
36
General Discussion / Re: Cadence
¡NICE REPLY! user111

(Apologies for the in-joke.  user111 in a very worthwhile forum contributor, unlike ¡ME!, who was probably the worst behaved user on the old forum, and one of the main reasons we now have the subscriber-only forums.)
37
General Discussion / Re: A heated argument at last night's music practice.
For me it's more likely to be first version.  My view is "make the music as readable as possible", which means getting rid of extra squiggles - such as ties - unless:
  • there is no other way to notate the music (such as when a note is held across a bar-line),
  • or if the tie obscures an important beat
So, if the 4/4 is fairly fast, beat 4 is quite unimportant, so the 8 4 8 pattern is easier to read.  But if the 4/4 is quite slow, then beat 4 is much more important, and 8 8_8 8 helps the player.

Also controversial is 8 4 4 4 8 in a bar of 4/4.  It appears in the sax parts for The Boyfriend, and at first drove me mad, but now it feels correct for the particular syncopated figure! 8 4 8_8 4 8 would just look cluttered.


38
General Discussion / Re: Number of staves per system
A part work-around might be to divide your piece by page, working from the front.  You'd need to save each section into a different file, where you can choose which staves to print.  It's messy, tedious, and splits your work.  I only use it if I really have to have the look correct, or if I have nasty page turns.  Even then, I still keep the original as a complete file.

You might be able to print the individual pages one-at-a-time from the same file, but when you adjust the number of printing staves, the pagination would mess up.  You'd need to do some serious set-visibility Never, or inserting extra space to make it work.

39
General Discussion / Re: customize font types
I didn't know about the "custom" directory either, so I just had a brief experiment.  It appears that all folders within your Template directory appear as tabs in the File New dialog.  Your folders can have spaces in the name and can be empty.

Just lerve this extra level of organisation.
41
General Discussion / Re: Accidental Notes
It's one of the areas where some of the authorities say one thing and other authorities say the opposite.  I suspect the majority state that an accidental only affects the octave it's written.  But to be kind to your readers, it can be good to have a courtesty accidental in any other octave, making clear what's correct.  Of course, this just converts the problem into a different one, as NWC doesn't yet have courtesy accidentals, (except as text).
42
General Discussion / Re: Special Endings and ties. Visual glitch
I've done some checking - Granger went to a school in Caroline Street, South Yarra (still a Melbourne suburb), for a term or less.

To me Delius sounds an awful lot like Grainger (or is it the other way around!).  And yes, I think Ellington is starting to get recognition.  Eventually we'll be able to leave out the adjectives ("black", "American", "twentieth century", "jazz").

From "The Bluffer's Guide to Music":  "There are four composers beyond reproach: Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, and your own particular favourite."

43
General Discussion / Re: Special Endings and ties. Visual glitch
Standardisation versus ease of use?  I usually prefer standards, but in the convoluted case I just showed, I think the standard gets in the way.  Something for us all to answer for ourselves?

Grainger was not self-taught musically.  He was home-schooled (as we would say now) except for a month in a regular school (whose name I can't remember, but I'm fairly sure was in Melbourne somewhere - Port Melbourne P.S. possibly??).  His did have formal lessons in piano. eventually moving to Germany studying under Busoni (who was also a composer).  It was generally still the practice that students of an instrument were also expected to write for it.

My composition teacher learned piano (and composition) from another of Busoni's students, and the reports are that Percy had a reputation for failing to complete assigned work, for turning up late to lessons, and for not practicing!  He was also not held in high regard by the other students in Busoni's classes.

Still, I'd write in 2½/4 too, if I could come up with some good Grainger.
44
General Discussion / Re: Special Endings and ties. Visual glitch
Is this it?

| soloist verse 1 | soloist chorus 1 complete ||: choir verses 2,3,4 | choir choruses 2,3,4  | 2. choir chorus 2 ending :|| 3. choir chorus 3 ending :|| 4. choir chorus 4 ending ||


I was going to say that I wouldn't wouldn't want this, as it's not standard, and that as a repetiteur for choirs, I usually just need to know which time it is through the repeat, and that the particular verse number is unimportant (although is is easier for the singers).  But then I came up with this:

| soloist verse 1 | soloist chorus 1 complete ||: choir verses 2,3,4,5,6,7 | choir choruses 2,3,4,5,6,7  | 2.4.6. choir choruses 2,4,6 ending :|| 3.5. choir choruses 3,5 ending :|| 7. choir chorus 7 ending || more music ||

There's no way I'd want standard ending numbers - they'd all be one less, and rehearsing would be very confusing.  There's a particularly nauseating song (in my opinion) that choirs sing here called "I Am Australian", that has a structure quite similar to this.

So, yes - I now think you have a very strong case for asking for a change in the way ties cross into 2nd, 3rd, etc time endings!

David - your reply has come in while I'm typing this, but I don't think there's an impact - but I am going to change topic with you in a follow-up!




45
General Discussion / Re: Special Endings and ties. Visual glitch
I think Lawrie's hit the nail on the head with: "... modern music often doesn't follow 'the rules' anymore. ... Can be quite confusing at times."  It's probably a reason why we should follow the rules more often - as Rick G. pointed out, we're printing out instructions for people to comprehend in limited time.

I'm having trouble with
  • In choral/vocal music, to have the ending match the verse
  • Where the first ending is on a different page in another file
Can you give an example for the first? - my brain's a bit hazy just now.  Too many late nights in the pit.
For the second, I think I'd have the new file with the second-time ending start as:

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:-2^|Visibility:Never
|Ending|Endings:2
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:-2
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Lawrie's example, though, really shows the problem.  Purists might say that it should be
  • 1st,3rd ending
  • 2nd ending
  • 4th ending
but there might be very good page layout reasons to have the 2nd ending first.

Apart from this, I still can't think of a case where you'd have:

  ||: music | 1. music :|| something_here | 2. music | music |

i.e.  The tie into the 2nd-time bar never comes from the bar that's printed immediately before it.  If that's how the music flows, then the special ending marks are in a confusing (and wrong) place!

Cheers, Ewan
If you need to, please read measure for bar, and for any other language differences, please see the NWC2 "British to American to Australian to South African to ... to Hutt River Provincial" on-line Music Dictionary, Translator and Currency Exchange.  There is one, isn't there?
47
General Discussion / Re: Master repeat, more than twice
Here's the way I used to do it before David posted his method a while ago.  Mine works better it you need more than 8 or 9 repeats (Rock Lobster, anyone?), but David's is much more elegant and less fiddly.

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatOpen|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Bar|Style:LocalRepeatClose|Repeat:21|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
50
Instrument Trees / Re: General Midi.nwcitree
Maybe we can resolve this "Wandering Timpani" problem with:

1.  Accept that GM1 made a mistake1 all those years ago, but that we're stuck with it.

2.  Realise that we don't have to have GM1 as the default itree, but can have something much better organised with fewer instruments - possibly a "simplified midi", without all the variations of <insert_disliked_instrument_here>.  And maybe some other itrees standardised by NWC - for example: basic örchestra, basic concert band, big band.

But it's really not all that hard to create your own itree.

Cheers,
Ewan

1  Maybe it wasn't a mistake, but the best solution available at the time.