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Messages - David Palmquist

General Discussion / Re: Unsychronized or uneven lyrics
There's no attached file, but I would think you would just let the Lyric Line Count on staffs 2, 3 and 4 to be zero.  Since the lyrics for those staffs will be deleted, I would copy them to a text file first, so you can just copy them back when you're ready for lyrics in those staffs.
General Discussion / Re: Partial Highlight
You're using essentially 2-note chords.  When you enter the "active" note, you can set the note colour, so you would have one default note (black?) and one coloured, say, red or blue. 

General Discussion / Re: distance between staffs
I guess I was suggesting she enable it. but the statement was unclear.  Is she asking about the distance between systems or the distance between notes?  Both are user variables. 

In any event, if it's the former, adjusting the vertical height of a staff in the first bar of each page may accomplish what she needs.  
General Discussion / Re: effect of lowering notes

This is a "double-flat" accidental.  This is half a tone lower than an ordinary flat note.   You may sometimes see a double-sharp  too, a double-sharp uses an X instead of a sharp sign, and raises the note a half step above the sharp.  D double-sharp is the same as E natural.

Your key signature probably has at least 4 flats (Bb, Eb, Ab, Db), so every D and E is flat unless marked with an accidental. (Where there is an accidental, if there's another note of the same pitch following it in the same bar, it will have the same accidental, but it's unwritten.)

E double flat is the same as D.  The composer wants you to sing/play
Db, Eb, D natural, Db, D natural, Db
but that means writing four accidental signs in the bar.   It's less cluttered to just use the one double-flat.

There's probably a theory reason too, but I have not yet gained that knowledge.
General Discussion / Re: Changing the key signature
Frank, I think it would really help you to understand more music theory.  Go here:

It's in English, but you can use Google Translate to read it in Indonesian.  Go to and copy the dolmetsch URL into the left window.  In the right window,  use the down arrow to select Indonesian.  

You might like to ask your singer what her range is.  Your smartphone may have a tuner app that will name the notes when she sings them. I use an app called gStrings.

The transposition tool in NWC asks you how many semitones you want to transpose.  This may be easier to understand if you look at the piano keyboard and count the white AND black keys, so for instance to go from D major (it has 2 sharps) to Bb major (it has 2 flats), you count down 4 keys or up 8.  Think of a major scale as a staircase, where the first step is a whole step, the second is a whole, step, the third is only a half step, the fourth is another whole step, the fifth is a whole, the sixth is a whole step, and the seventh is a half step - so: tone, tone, semi-tone, tone, tone, tone. semitone.

General Discussion / Re: Digital way to key in the note
Lawrie mentioned Sharpeye and that it's expensive.  It is, but it's also good.  I use if frequently, particularly with big tasks (I recently extracted 28 instrumental parts from a 325 bar band score). 

Errors can be reduced if you scan at 600 dpi or higher, and of course, it helps if the original document is good.  If it's faded or uses archaic notation there may be more errors. 

Most Sharpeye errors are timing, where perhaps a triplet hasn't been recognized, or a rest is dropped or misread  Those can be found and fixed fairly easily in Sharpeye using a mouse.  Sharpeye flags those incorrect bars for you. 

Once you;ve opened the converted file in NWC, it's not hard to find and fix the remeaining errors.  Sometimes you'll see a 1-pixel red dot in a bar.  While it's hard to see, that's where you likely have to fix something.

Sometimes it's easier to make corrections within Sharpeye, other times, it's easiest to save the Sharpeye file with the errors, export the file to MusicXML and convert that to NWCTEXT, then fix the errors in NWC.

Bart  commented on the high music OCR error rate too.  I agree it's sometimes just easier to notate a single page of music note by note.

If your source music is a PDF file, some PDF programmes will allow the page(s) to be exported to black and white BMP or TIFF image files, which is what Sharpeye needs. 
General Discussion / Re: Final variant
An alternative to Mike's solution is just to treat the "variant ad libitum" as a text entry, vertically positioned at the same height as the lyric.  For horizontal alignment, put an invisible bar line just after the clef at the beginning of the lower line, and put the text to the left of the bar line, left or right justified as wanted, placed "at next bar." 
General Discussion / Re: looks different rest sign
Coming late to the party, sorry.

I saw the backwards eighth rest in a band chart from the early 20th century about a year ago.  It's just a quarter rest, written in an old style, I believe. Instead of using Page Text or other workarounds, just use an ordinary quarter rest. 
Hi again, Gust

I'm afraid I have no idea how to find the character string in the xml file with the extra space, but I tried your newer programme, NWCCONVERTER.  It seems to open and run, but then I got this error message.

Unhandled exception in script
Failed to execute script 'nwcconvertor' due to unhandled exception: (P1', 1, '2')

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 698, in <module>
  File "", line 630, in process_main_window
  File "", line 473, in event_convert
  File "", line 468, in convert
  File "", line 2192, in convert
  File "", line 2098, in process_tag_element
  File "", line 2098, in process_tag_element
  File "", line 2098, in process_tag_element
  File "", line 2100, in process_tag_element
  File "", line 1104, in convert_tag_note_end
  File "", line 1005, in set_attributes
  File "", line 877, in process_slur
  File "", line 840, in start_slur
  File "", line 665, in nwc_staff_index
KeyError: ('P1', 1, '2'). 

The xml file was created in SharpEye2 by scanning 53 pages of music.  I think the file is just too large for your converter, so I SharpEyed just one page.  It converted very well in your programme.   It also works in Niversoft's converter. 

So, I've learned something.  Big files may not work.  And I'll experiment a little to see how many pages of music will be the limit.

Thank you so very much for your help and your suggestion to use the new programme NWCCONVERTER.

Good stuff.

Hi Opagust,

I downloaded and installed your MXML2NWC version 1.1.4 tool today.  When I select a XML file, the filename displays in the Loggings window but this error message appears immediately: 

  Attribute value not quoted in 'measure number = "1"'

I don't know what that means or how to fix it.

The file is an xml file exported from SharpEye2.

(It may not be a glitch in your programme, because I've been having problems with the Niversoft converter too.  It did two files, but while it says it converted the next three files, the nwctxt files won't download.)

Any suggestions, please?


General Discussion / Re: Mid Export
Your time machine isn't accurate.  You jumped back 15 years twice, but missed by 20 minutes.

Sorry.  Terrible attempt at humour.

Could it be that your system has the wrong date? 

General Discussion / Two bar repeat sign
Insert Object SingleDoubleBarRepeat.

I can't seem to get the two bar repeat sign to work.  I think it did, not so long ago, but I must be getting rusty.  All I get is a text string on the staff that says "SingleDoubleBarRepeat."

Clearly I'vew lost track of how to get the symbol.   Help, please?

|Text|Text:"Hi-Hat Cymbals"|Font:StaffLyric|Pos:12
General Discussion / Re: Extra spacing for longer notes
Turning INS off in each (non-templated file) worked for me in a test file just now. 

To pedantically paraphrase what Flurmy said is that Increase Note Spacing is the default behaviour.  If you don't want it, you must turn it off on every file unless you begin with a template which already has it turned off.

There's a reason to increase the note spacing, so an alternative might be to decrease the Staff Metrics in the Fonts tab of the Page Setup tab. Size 14 might be a bit small if you're writing for older instrumentalists, but vocalists can hold the music a bit closer.

General Discussion / Re: PageTextMaestro and PageText.
Thank you so very much, Lawrie, this helped a tremendous lot.  You've allowed me to achieve what I wanted, as shown in the attachment (without the typo that's there now).

Best wishes from (hopefully temporary) snow country. 
General Discussion / Re: PageTextMaestro and PageText.
    Here I go again.  Never happy.  Very confused, a little frustrated, and begging for help.

    Background:  I've just scanned and edited 38 page, 326 measure, 26 part concert band medley with the permission of the arranger who no longer has printed or digital copies of the parts.   I've put about 60 hours into it and now I'm ready to start printing.  Most parts will be three or four pages, double sided. 

    I am pretty sure I can use Page Text Maestro and Page Text, but I have no idea what to enter, or where,  to achieve:
    • Front page, top:
      • Song title, centred, Page Text font.
                   Dnnnnnnnnnn Medley
      • Two-line song subtitle, centred below the song title, in either Page Text or Page Small Text:
                    Battle Hymn of the Republic;, Nnnnn Nnnn, The Nnnn of Nnn Nnnnnn;
                    Mnnn Cnnnnnn Bnnnn (Snnnnnn); South Rampart Street Parade
      • Top left (where File Info normally shows Lyricist): Instrument name
               Flute 1
      • Right side  (system generated from File Info / Author): The composer/ arranger's name.
                Arr. Mmmmm Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
      All of this should be high enough on the page to avoid clashing with the top system.

    • Second, third and fourth pages, top, preferably centred:.
      • Page numbers (system generated with Page Setup / Options / Page numbering 
      • I want the song title and the instrument name to appear on one line at the top of each of these pages, centred if possible but left or right justified would be acceptable.
                   Dnnnnnnnnnn Medley - Flute 1

      Very specific commands illustrating exactly what to enter and where will be greatly appreciated.
Tips & Tricks / Re: How do I use Drumref in samples
Are you saying that you always used only the piano sound (patch 0)
Yup! I use named instruments for the other channels, but in the 26 years I've been using the program, for drums I use channel 10 and have always selected Acoustic Grand.  I had no idea unnamed patches could be added instead, using Staff Properties, Instrument, Midi Patch Instructions Send Patch and Staff Properties, Midi, Channel 10. 
Tips & Tricks / Re: How do I use Drumref in samples
The "right" drum sound? Maybe you mean the standard one! 


I've never played around with soundfonts or patches.  I'm probably not the only one, and of course new users might like to know too.

Are there instructions somewhere that are easy to locate and user-friendly?
General Discussion / Re: NWC files not opening properly
You might want to check your system setup, Phillip, particularly your mouse settings.

It might be your hardware or your operating system.  I recently had to replace my keyboard, and the Microsoft keyboard software tries to govern my mouse too. The result is clicking, which used to be very quick, is unreliable and slow.   I use an old wireless optical Logitech mouse, an HP desktop pc running Windows 10  and a Microsoft articulated keyboard.  Compared to the old articulated KB that I used for 15 or 20 years, this one is a piece of cr >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(
Tips & Tricks / Re: How do I use Drumref in samples
Many years ago, I think it was recommended Channel 10 be set to acoustic grand piano to get the right drum sounds.  It's been a long time so I may be misremembering.

Also, you may need a little trial and error so see which note gives which drum; for instance, middle C will sound like one drum, F below that may sound like something else, A in the staff like something else again.  There's a lot of variety here, including lots of percussion toy noises.

You may be wise to use two staffs - one for the actual drum music, hidden but not muted, and the other for the visual display of the rhythms where you show x-head notes and stems, flags, beams, etc.  This one you'd want to mute.
General Discussion / Re: Note in number
Frank, I'm curious,  Western music notation is a written music language meant to tell the reader what music should be played and how.  You don't have to read English to understand most of it.   You're asking about a different music language which  
is still easier to learn songs in our church, with singing it in Number notes.  I can key the number in the lyric place
I get it, but you've been copying music notation for some months now.  I think that is an excellent way to learn to read music -  I learned the bass clef by doing that and transposing trombone parts (concert pitch bass clef notes) for french horn (treble clef, transposing instrument).  You know what note is found at each line or space of either staff, you know the normal time signatures, you probably know your key signatures, and I'm sure you know the differences between a whole note, a half note, a quarter note, etc.  I doubt if you need the easier way to learn songs yourself; it must be for your members.

I can almost feel a lightning bolt getting ready to strike me for saying it, but church music is often sung by people who can't carry a tune better than me, and believe me, I can't.  Why do you need a musical notation program like Noteworthy Composer to write for people who cannot read music and don't mind not singing what's written? 

Regardless, back in 2005 there was a discussion in this forum about lettered noteheads.  One guest said
What I was looking for was something similar to what Hal Leonard does in his 'Easy Play' books; placing the letter inside the notehead, either black on white or white on black, depending on the note.
   I wonder if lettered notes would be useful to you?

The result was a new font, NoteHedz, available  from the Scriptorium.

The 2005 discussion carried on a few years later, and Opagust provided his user tool  OGNoteNames.

Rick G. (sadly no longer with us) also gave an example of lettered noteheads done without the user tool, but doesn't seem to have explained how it can be done. 

I suspect you might like using the lettered noteheads.  You might need to educate your congregation, but there isn't much you'd need to teach them. 

General Discussion / Re: vertical line
Lawrie wrote
The backwards quaver rest is an old style crotchet (quarter) rest,

I encountered this in a ancient band transcription of Pomp and Circumstance this fall.  I don't think I've ever seen it before in nearly 60 years of playing band music. 

I guess I just lead a sheltered life.  :))
General Discussion / Re: what key signature/cleff
Frank, in addition to what Lawrie has explained, when you get these odd clefs you can sometimes decipher them by examining the key signature. 

In traditional western music key signatures, the flats and sharps will always be written in order.

You probably already know,:
  • Flat key signatures will always be written in this order: Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb and Fb and the major key is named for the second last flat, so, for instance, 4 flats will be Bb Eb Ab and Db, and the key will be Ab major or its corresponding minor).
  • Sharp key signatures are the reverse sequence:  F# ,C# ,G# ,D#, A# ,E# and B#.  Sharp key signatures take their names from the note that is one above the last sharp - four sharps will be E major.

In your example, the key signature will tell you which lines and spaces are B, E, A and D.
General Discussion / Re: Tenor & Bass Lysric
I don't work with lyrics, but:

You can create your four lines of lyrics in one staff using Lyric 1, Lyric 2, Lyric 3 and Lyric 4 tabs in the Lyrics menu.  This may cause problems if the words begin with note changes that differ in that part (i.e. trebles' words may not begin at the same beat as the bass lyrics.).

In that case create a separate lyric for each staff and place them below the treble staffs (Lyric 1, Lyric 2) or above the bass staffs ( Lyric 3,  Lyric 4).   I think you simply position them above or below the relevent staff using the Configuration tab in the Lyrics menu and maybe use the Offset settings to adjust their height.

General Discussion / Re: can not layer
If you have chosen "allow layering" in Page Setup, when you look at Print Preview the staves will be layered IF the upper one has been set to "layer with next staff"  in Staff Properties (F2). 

You won't see this in the Edit window unless you've also selected "allow layering in edit mode" from either the View menu or the icon in the menu bar.
Avant-garde / Re: Rehearsal marks
Once more I must thank Mike.  Using NWC only once in a while, I haven't kept up with the new objects, and Mike's is a big improvement over the method I have been using.

I use Lawrie's fonts for some types of music, but I liked Boxmarks2 for many of the charts just because of the styles.  It's moot now, though, with

Thanks, everyone.

Avant-garde / Rehearsal marks
Experienced users, ignore this.  You have your own methods.

New users, when you're writing a chart you may want to use rehearsal numbers or letters.  Generally I create these as text entries, in UserFont1, set to Boxmarks2, Bold, Size 16 (use the Page Setup/Fonts submenu for this). 

I place them at the beginning of their respective bars, right-justified to appear above the preceding bar line.  When the staff wraps  when printing, the rehearsal mark will be at the beginning of the new staff instead of orphaned at the end of the previous staff  I also set them to Visibility=Top Staff Only so they don't clutter up a multiple part score, but I usually enter them on all the parts so they're there when I go to print separate instrument parts. 

You can get away with entering each rehearal mark once only if you put them in a staff full of rests at the top of your score, but there are pros and cons to that.

Alphabetic rehearsal letters are simply a matter of adding a capital letter.  With Boxmark2, it will show inside a rectangular box.  Numeric rehearsal marks are a little more complicated. You need to use the Character Map and select one element at a time.  Start with the [ bracket. Then select the numeral(s) you want using the Character Map.  Choose the numbers that have horizontal lines above and below it. Finally end with the ] bracket. Your number will be entered as a boxed number, and can be 1, 2, 3 or even more characters long.

It's tedious to enter a lot of numeric rehearsal marks because you need the Character Map, so I usually create a supersized one at the very beginning of the staff, with this text string:
123456789012345678901234567890 .  When I need to add a rehearsal number, I just copy that to the appropriate bar and edit the copy to remove the numbers I don't want.  It saves a lot of time and work if your piece is 300 or more bars long.

General Discussion / Re: several pictures
The "12" in a box reminds me of a rehearsal mark.
Although it's oddly placed on the page the 12 may simply be the publisher's way of numbering the songs in a book.  I've seen it in introductory piano books, but usually close to the title.
General Discussion /
Mike, just a quick thank you for  I haven't used it until today, and it works like a charm.

General Discussion / Re: What is this?
I wonder if they elongated rectangular noteheads are meant to be harmonic noteheads, such as NWC provides in the Noteheads submenu of the Notes menu?

Please don't ask me what a harmonic notehead is meant for, I have no clue.
General Discussion / Re: how to make it longer like in the picture
Frank, you may have noticed some "hairpins" are too high or too low and run through some notes and you may notice if you have one ending on the same note that has a dynamic marking, the hairpin collides with the dynamic.

The height (vertical position) of each hairpin depends on the vertical position of the last dynamic before it on the same staff.  Even though it might be way way earlier (50 bars or more), moving that dynamic up or down will move your hairpin up or down.  If you don't want to adjust that dynamic,  you can add one closer to, but before, the hairpin, and set it to Visibility=Never.  Even though it won't print, you can still move it up or down to control the hairpin.

To avoid either end of the hairpin running into the dynamic symbol, you can adjust the dynamic placement - select it, press Ctrl-E or Alt-E to get the notation properties menu, then fiddle with Placement and maybe Justification Right.
General Discussion / Re: quarter note's rest out side of the staff
Quote guys are still lucky your languages are mostly used in this world... To balance between my brain and physic/muscle my main job is housekeeping.
It is good that now a days we have kind of community where we can ask question and learn and we can learn from youtube anything.
Here below is my web, that I just built by selfstudy.,

Hey Frank, one excellent feature of Noteworthy is this wonderful forum.  I tend not to visit unless I'm using NWC, but right now I'm going through the messages I haven't seen before.

I'm lucky my native language is English, but I had French (instead of Latin) forced on me in school, and I began to learn Swedish when I was middle-aged.  Unfortunately, Swedish bumped my French out of my brain, and when I try to speak in French I end up using Swedish words and grammar.

I appreciate the UK/Australian words for the note values, even though I don't always remember what each one means.

If you don't play an instrument, you might consider learning one and joining a community band.  Great for the brain, great for socializing.  A couple of hours every week where you just forget the world.

Like you, I learned to create my own webpages from scratch, too. Here's one example:

General Discussion / Re: not loud enough
Back to Frank's original question
When I screen recording my keyed song in Noteworthy. How can we make it load enough, so that when my choir member play my youtube it is loud enough.
It might help to reset the volume (called Dynamic Velocities) for each dynamic setting.

I think this can only be done one staff at a time. :'(   It would be nicer to be able to do the entire score at one time, but I don't know if that's possible. 

Anyway, select your staff, then select the Instrument tab in the Staff Properties (F2) menu and increase the default velocities for each dynamic.
General Discussion / Re: Key signature
Quote from: David Palmquist  -  12 hours ago
Is it possible those are not sharp signs, bur instead are double sharps?
No, these are standard sharp signs. They look like "ours", i.e. like "hash marks" #, just angled at about 45
My bad.  My vision ain't what it used to be, and I thought I was looking at more than two lines in each direction in each sharp sign. Thanks for the followup and the additional examples.
General Discussion / Re: changing the key
Perhaps this deliberate approach to make consistent fingerings is how their keys were originally defined, and have remained so to this day.  At least, that's my best guess for now.
My best guess too.

I'm also thinking to the baroque recorder.

I don't have a baroque recorder but do have an alto recorder that I never play.   Wikipedia says
The F alto is a non-transposing instrument . . . So-called F fingerings are therefore used ...  in contrast to the C fingerings used for most other woodwinds...
When the instrument was given to me, maybe 40 years ago?, it came with fingering charts for both F and C fingerings, so the player had some flexibiility. . 

General Discussion / Re: changing the key
... normally a trumpet is a Bb instrument.  There are exceptions which will help make things clearer later.
The reason it is called a Bb instrument is that its fundamental note, with no valves operated, is a concert Bb.  From the players perspective we call this fundamental note C, even though it is still a concert Bb...
Trumpets come in several pitches.  You will see Bb, A, C, D and Eb most commonly though by far the most prevalent is the Bb.  If a trumpet is mentioned without a key then it will be a Bb trumpet. In ALL cases the lowest note with no valves operated is called middle C. 

The theory is a little different for transposing reed instruments - clarinets, saxes, and english horns, and some flutes (oboe, most flutes and bassoons don't transpose).

Saxes and clarinets are not normally explained in terms of their fundamental note.  The lowest note on most Bb soprano clarinets is a written E, which is D on the piano.  If you don't close any of the tone holes, you get a written G, or concert F.  The lowest note on saxophones is usually written Bb which will be Ab on the piano for the Bb saxes and Db on the piano for the Eb saxes.  Some members of the clarinet family play lower - vintage alto and bass clarinets traditionally go down to written Eb and modern bass clarinets down to written C below that.  The low note on many modern baritone saxes is a written A.

The "name" of the instrument - "Bb" tenor sax, "Eb" alto sax is the concert pitch note heard when a written C is played.   On your soprano or tenor, when you play C that same note on a piano is Bb.  On alto or bari, C gives you Eb.  

Three members of the clarinet family are pitched in Eb and some saxes are pitched in C (I have a C soprano and a C melody).  Clarinets used for symphonic work are often pitched in A and I think I've seen ads for clarinets in C as well.  Recently somebody on Facebook posted a short video of him playing a bass clarinet pitched in G which he made with a 3-D printer.

Sorry I wrote so much.  All I am trying to say is that transposing woodwind instruments are not named for their fundamental notes (if they even have them).
General Discussion / Re: How would you play this?
Question resolved.  The arranger kindly replied to my query with

Thanks for asking!  I remember how rushed the publisher was to get this to press--I had about 24 hours to proof, and I was still working full-time then! I am not surprised that some things are ambiguous.

Mm. 45-48 should all be written Db for bass clarinet. I think you and your friends have guessed correctly--there is an unnecessary accidental in m. 45, but the intent is for all four measures to be Db for bass clarinet.

Thanks so much for asking! 

I'm not sure if I'm happy or not.  I was thinking I was learning something about open key signatures.   But all is good!  Thanks everyone.
General Discussion / Re: Convert file in NWC to Midi format
Alt-File-Export pops out a Save As menu that offers you choices between Type 1 Midi File, Type 0 Midi File and Noteworthy Composer 1.75 File - see image attached.   I don't use midi so I can't discuss the merits of either midi type.
General Discussion / Re: Convert file in NWC to Midi format
File -> Export will store it as MIDI file of type 0.
Why type 0?
NWC2 will export to Midi type 1. 

You could always open Audacity or a similar programme (I still use Creative WaveStudio online) and set it to record, then play the NWC file.  The sound should be recorded to your hard drive and you can then save it in a format that can be played back in a sound app.

If you want to use the file in another notation programme, you can convert it to MusicXML using
General Discussion / Re: windows 11
Good to know, Flurmy

An alternative then would be for leforain  to send his or her existing NWC files to one of us to open and save to nwc text format and send them back.  

leforain, is this something you'd consider?  How many files are there, I wonder?