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Messages - David Palmquist

Thanks, Mike.

Sounds right.

BTW, where is found?
and the "=" should definitely be centred on the barline.
...except when there's a system break, forced or naturally occurring? 

I don't have an opinion about centering the object over a bar line, but if you do that, sometimes you have to accomodate a lot of clutter at a system break (key and tempo changes, perhaps text for the title of the next tune in a medley.

The tool needs to be flexible for printing both a full score and separate instrumental/vocal parts.  The system breaks likely won't occur at the same measure number from part to part, since some parts have lots of notes and others have lots of multibar rests, so the clutter will differ for each system's breaks.

If I'm writing for lots of instruments, the object probably needs to automatically adjust for different clutter in each part, otherwise there's going to need to be too much line by line fine-tuning.

Would these challenges be accommodated with giving the user two choices:  1. Placement: Right Justify, As Staff Signature or 2. Placement: Left Justify?

Thanks, Mike.  My problem with the question mark was I clicked it on the field names instead of inside the fields themselves.

The PageTxtMaestro.nwc sample score is very helpful, too. I had forgotten it existed if I ever new.  It wasn't super hard to find.


Hi again, Gust
3. ... Maybe I should check more then the name alone and provide more elaborate information when there's a mismatch. The properties shown in the score review panel might be an inspiration?.

Yes, I think so.  Fools like me need "watch fors".  Depending on why I'm notating the music, I may or may not use the transposition or instrument settings and even where I do use them, I might not remember today the substitutes I used for the rarer instruments in a file I created a few years earlier ( rare instruments such as piccolo trumpet, flugelhorn, euphonium, bass sax, bass trombone, or the four lower members of the clarinet family ).  Or I may just not need to set transposition on the particular file I'm working on today but transposition has been set in the previously created target file.

Don't know how helpful they'll be, but here are 3 live samples from my band folder. 
Well, after 15 years it may be time for an update. 

Magic tape didn't last  (sigh.  :( ).  Masking tape dries, becomes brittle and breaks. 

A couple of ideas from - book binding tape and hinging tape.

Has anyone tried these for taping two or more pages of instrumental parts together?  Results?
Hi Opagust,

I haven't tried the object yet; won't have time this weekend to get really into trying it.

Some quick thoughts though, if you haven't dealt with them already?

I think there are two uses for the tool: Creating two or more songs on the same page of printed music, or alternatively, to combine songs into a medley. 

I might want:

1. Options to have the transferred song continue with or without a system break.

2. Where there's to be a system break, it would be useful to have an option to increase the upper vertical space on the first top staff of the transferred bars to allow space to include a large, bold song title.

3. Some way to help the user remember to ensure the transferred staffs have the same instruments in the same sequence (that probably has been dealt with manually by the user before using the tool), and with transposition settings consistent with the  destination file's existing staffs.

4. If you use simple text markers, perhaps there should be two: one at the beginning and one at the end of each copied section.  This might help if two or more groups of staffs are added to the target file.

...I was working on a file accessed from a memory stick. This was loosely plugged in and any vibration of the desk caused the stick to rattle and repeatedly reconnect and superimpose multiple search screens on top of the music program's active screen...
And of course pounding the desk in frustration didn't help, I bet!

Glad you've solved it.
In the two entries I tried, it seems to be almost perfect, Mike.  Thanks for creating this.

Usually the equation should be bracketed, so I think there should be an opening parenthesis, a little white space, the equation, a little more white space, and then the closing parenthesis.

I've had some success in the past with PgTxt.nw, but I'm now an infrequent user (3 or 4 times a year),  I don't remember what worked and what didn't, the last times I used the object.  I remember being very happy with it last fall.  But now I'm struggling.

I think there are too many unexplained variables in the PgTxtMaestro and PgTxt.nw dialogue boxes to use them efficiently. 

Are the object variables documented somewhere so the user can see what each means without killing an hour or more to figure out how to do something that can be done in minutes with ordinary text entries? 

If there is documentation, does it actually explain awkwardities such as Laurie points out?
You can't have two PgTxt objects if the same kind on the staff - the latter will always override the earlier one

General Discussion / Re: Rounds
Why not?
The flow didn't seem to work when I tested it yesterday, but I cannot replicate the issue today, so may it does work ok.
General Discussion / Re: Rounds
I just learned how to do something new because of this thread: end with something other than the normal double bar line!

I have been writing and notating rounds lately for my choir. Here is a favourite that I was able to change the ending on. It looks great on my screen. However, when I go to print...trouble! It's probably best to keep it as a single line piece but I do like hearing the sound of the round.
I think you can keep multiple staffs, but they should be the same length.  Add bars of rests at the end of the shorter staffs.

For printing, insert a Master Repeat Close with a page break just before the end of each staff.  Whatever you use for the staff ending in Staff Properties won't show on the page when you print it.

I don't think the repeats work properly when they're aren't aligned staff to staff. 
General Discussion / Re: end on steff
Master Repeat Close with Forced System Break does the trick too, as far as I could see.
Thanks. I've started using the keyboard shortcut and it's great.

Is there a shortcut for "save as"?

{Alt-F} {a}
General Discussion / Re: Move Staff
Closing Opera did the trick.  When I reopened Opera the problem arose again, but I was able to disable the extension in the new Opera session and now the NWC shortcut works again.

Hopefully it will continue working without having to apply the fix again. 

Thank you very much to everyone who replied, and to Bart for finding the solution.

General Discussion / Re: Move Staff
Richard asked
Do you use page up/down from the numeric keyboard and if so, have you switched num lock on?
I always use my extended keyboard's  stand-alone Insert, Home, Page Up, Delete, End and Page Down and arrow keys.
PgUp and PdDn are on the numeric keypad as Shift-9 and Shift-3, but unlike my laptop, there's no Fn key. Ctrl-Shift-9 and Ctrl-Shift-3 behave the same as Shift-9 and Shift-3, and won't move a staff.

Bart wrote
...My NWC version is : 2.8 Beta 1...I think we must blame MicroSoft that now blocks the CTRL+SHIFT+PAGE XXX key combination....
Are you - like me - using Opera as browser?
I think I have unfairly blamed MicroSoft.
I found this web page ( and when I close my Opera browser, ctrl+shift+page up/down are working again (in NWC). Probably these key combinations are trapped by Opera
Yes, I use Opera.  It's open with multiple tabs almost all the time because I have project on the go that uses a webpage that takes a long time to open.  I've disabled the extension, but it hasn't done any good.  I'll try closing Opera after I finish this message and see what happens... Thanks for digging into this.
There's a clickable toggle in the Toolbars.  It looks like a single horizontal line meeting a vertical line which has two horizontal lines running from it.

If you don't see it, right click on a blank space in your File toolbar to call up the menu,  select Toolbars, then select File and Customize.  Move "Layering in Edit Mode" from the Available tools window to the Active tools window.

has anyone else come up with any more good organizational tips for their composition/engraving work?

You could include the version number and the date printed in the first empty Copyright Notice field or print to PDF and use your PDF program to include this info so the musicians have a visual check during your rehearsals.

One wrinkle, I tried entering the info in Copyright Notice 2 but it would't display in Print Preview until I wrote something in Copyright Notice 1 too.

General Discussion / Move Staff
I'm unable to use the keyboard shortcut Ctrl +Shift +PgUp  and Ctrl +Shift +PgDown today to move staffs up or down. 

The dropdown menu choices Staff - Move staff...  ,Staff - Move Staff Up and Staff - Move Staff Down methods work but the shortcut keys don't. 

I thought it might be corrected by closing and reopening the program, but not so.  I haven't yet rebooted - I have a LOT of programs on the go, so I'd prefer to hold off on that for now.

Is anyone else experiencing problems with these hotkey combinations at the moment?
One or more layered "conductor" staffs are handy, but you have to be careful what you write in them doesn't collide with the notes in the staffs they're printed with. Flute and piccolo parts are an example of leger line notes that will create mischief when you add text above the conductor staff for something like "Allegro ma non troppo," or you include the title of the upcoming section of a medley.

Similarly, if you add markings below the layered staff, those will collide with leger lines for instruments like bass clarinet, which often go down to written C below middle C.

Multibar rests can be tricky too, since the conductor staff MBRs will have to match the MBRs used in the part you're going to print.  A kludge for that would be to have several conductor staffs, each configured to match certain the instrumental parts.   It only takes a couple of seconds to make copies of the primary conductor staff, then you can change the copies as needed. 

One might say "why bother?" but it's still going to make life easier to have a few customized conductor staffs than entering a whole bunch of otherwise identical marking on every staff in your score.
This type of intro is often found in concert band Christmas and religious music.  Often the intro is the last few bars of the piece.  These are often marked with the same sort of brackets as a special ending, without the repeat signs or ending numbers.  Both the beginning bracket (lower case v) and the end bracket (lower case w) can be created with the Boxmark2 user font but if you use a closed ending in your final bar, you don't need the w,

  • Make a text entry, Boxmark2, v above the staff.  You will need to adjust its height to match the special ending line that follows it.
  • Make another text entry, your usual font but italics: "Intro."
  • Add a special ending at the same place as the opening bracket, before the word Intro, and uncheck the 1st, 2nd, etc., ending choices.  This will give you a horizontal line running the full width of the bar.  You can adjust its height with the Vertical Offset box.
  • In each succeeding bar of the introduction except the last, add a special ending with only  "Continue prior ending"  checked, and use the same vertical offset as the preceding bar.
  • In the final bar of the intro, add another special ending with "Continue prior ending" and "Closed ending" selected.

It's not perfect, but this is what you get:

I agree with Rick about right-justifying the text string at a bar line.

One caveat - if the text string is too long and now appears at the end of the first measure of the new staff, if may then spill over the left margin.  The solution is to break the text into a couple of shorter text entries: 
Allegro ma non troppo
Allegro [break]
ma non troppo.

Object Plugins / Re: (1.0)
The pieces I'm notating are for Clarinet and Piano. The Wind instrument sometimes has long measures of rest. I'm not sure how much to put in for showing the piano part. ...

If I recall correctly, in a clarinet/piano duet, the clarinetist reads a single-instrument chart - just the clarinet system, with appropriate rests during the tacet bars.  The piano part has three staffs, with the clarinet line above two piano staffs. 

Assuming the piece is a clarinet solo with piano accompaniment, the pianist should play in such a manner that the clarinetist doesn't have a problem counting rests; hence there's no need to put the piano staves on the part printed for the clarinet. Since such arrangements are usually for performance, you can assume both musicians will be well rehearsed and the soloist will not need cue notes nor the equivalent of a full score. 

If piano cues are needed for the clarinet, I would suggest the clarinet part employ collapsible staffs so only the last couple of bars of piano solo is printed on the clarinet part.  The clarinetist shouldn't need more than a bar or two each time.

I don't have any comments regarding a duet between clarinet and piano where the piano part is more than accompaniment.  I don't have any serious thoughts about adding a choral part to the mess, except to comment that too much paper makes for too many page turns, not a problem for a chorister, perhaps, but certainly an issue for the instrumentalists. 
I'm preaching to the choir, I know, but I'm mainly replying so users who aren't proficient with NWC yet see my solution to the problem of a system having a few bars running onto a new page.

I sometimes just decrease the size of the staff metrics, say from 16 to 14 (see Page Setup)  or decrease the height of each system (F2 for staff properties) so more fit on the pages I want to use.

This sounds awfully complicated for a task that should only take 10 or 15 seconds to do manually.

Insert a forced system break bar line ("section close") at the end of each staff.  It will work for the top visible staff only, but that's all you need. 

Use print preview, and insert a few more forced system breaks on the last few systems until the part or score looks good.

Usually I put them around 5 or 6 bars from the end, and then 5 or 6 bars before that, and if necessary 5 or 6 bars before that. 

Generally that takes care of all the spacing issues.

Without the complexity of trying to tweak spacing everywhere throughout the score.

Object Plugins / Re: BarCounter.nw
Thanks, Mike.  I'm not worried about it, since I've printed the score already and will be giving it to my conductor on Monday, but if it reveals a glitch in the user object, it might be nice to fix it for subsequent users.

The attached image shows the numbers are on all top system bars until the file is printed.

While the work is POP, copyright still subsists since the arranger died less than 50 years ago, so I will send you the NWC file by personal message.
Object Plugins / Re: BarCounter.nw

It would be nice if the custom bar counter object gave a choice for fonts, circles and squares as discussed by hmmeuler and Mike below two years ago. 

I really like this object, but minor tweaks would be nice. 

Also the "help" could be enhanced - for instance, you can choose "all eligible bars" - what does that mean?  On my current score, the bar count prints only at bar 5 of the first page, the first bar of the first system on pages 2 to 5, but then it normalizes on pages 6 to 50.  showing on each bar.  I thought it had something to do with notes on the first system being in leger-line land, but high notes are on that staff throughout the score.
Let me withdraw the wish.  I didn't pick up that just holding the right arrow while in the active (short) staff would scroll everything, as described by Opagust, but it does tonight. 

Good enough for me.  I don't need anything more. 

Thanks to all who participated.
Thanks, Rick.  The wheel on my mouse doesn't do that for me (running on Windows 10) - perhaps the mouse is outdated (it's wireless and I've had it for a good 10 or 20 years) but I can scroll by moving the whatchamacallit in the horizontal scroll bar, or simply clicking in the blank space to the right of the whatchamacallit.

It isn't quite what I'm requesting, though.  I'm looking to see at a glance what's coming up in the next few bars in the systems above the active staff, without having to change staffs or use a mouse. 

As I say, nice to have, not need to have. 
Our band received some donated music which is missing a score.  It's 353 bars long with parts for the full gamut of concert band instrumentation.   It's long out of print, so our conductor asked me if I'd write a score from the parts.  Foolishly, I said yes.

Where an instrument has more than one part (i.e., first, second, third, etc.) they often are parallel or at least have the same phrasing, note values, articulations and rhythms.  It is convenient to copy from one part to the other and do a little tweaking.

Having copied out the first 10 parts (Sharpeye didn't do very well this time) I'm at about bar 280 in the 11th.  The active bar in this 11th part is near the right edge of the edit window so I cannot see what is coming up in the preceding systems that I might copy into the active staff to save time re-notating tricky rhythms and articulations. 

I can see potential copyable bars in a preceding part if I move up a system, scroll right, copy what I need, and move back down to the active staff.

It would be really nice if the edit window could be set to scroll right and stop where the active bar is near the left side of the window.  
 That way the following bars in the preceding parts would be visible. 

Since not all users would want this, it should be something to toggle on or off.

One for the wish list, I think.  Not essential, but nice to have one day.
Flurmy, you wrote "That's why I hate the things invisible in edit mode. "

Have you tried changing the colour for hidden objects in the editor?  Go to Tools, Options, Color, and edit the active and inactive hidden object colours. 
..., they may as well buy Finale (churches get a 42% discount!),... to enable that content to be usable in my app.
They might as well, but there's a very steep learning curve with Finale.  Best of luck with your venture.
I'm not familiar with lasconic's converter.  Maybe the problem is the converter rather than NWC.

Have you tried Niversoft's?  It will create MusicXML from nwctext files (I don't know how it works with lyrics.  Not my thing..

Hope, because lasconic's .nwctxt -> MusicXML converter makes mistakes when multiple lyric lines use voices to change rhythms on a man additional verse.  Without that bug fixed (and it doesn't look likely), my users will be unable to import the content they created in NWC unless I write an importer from scratch.  And without proper documentation on what might appear in the file, interpreting my users files will be "best guess" instead of reliable.
It would probably help us understand your needs if you would tell us who your users/potential are, Ben? 

What is it you're trying to achieve? 

What do you expect your users will be doing that they can't do with the free  NoteWorthy Composer Viewer, available at ?
Just highlight the entire clip (from "!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single"to  "!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End")  then copy it, and paste it into a new NWC staff.
General Discussion / Re: A compliment!
How interesting!  I confirmed that by opening the nwctxt in a text program.  Thanks, both.

I wonder if the insertion happens when SharpEye creates the MRO file, or when it exports it to XML?  Or is the error created within the XML to NWC conversion?   Doesn't really matter, this is mostly just a rhetorical question.

General Discussion / Re: A compliment!
You may be right about the purpose, Mike, but if you take a look at my example, you'll see they mark bars where invisible items ("artifacts") create extra time within bars.  There are no muted notes in that staff, although I guess NWC might be treating the artifacts as muted.

The artifacts come from processing a BMP image of a page of music in SharpEye, exporting the result to a MusicXML file, and processing that through Niversoft's MusicXML ↔ NoteWorthy converter to create a .nwctxt file, which I opened in NWC 2.8 Beta 1. 

I haven't previously noticed the red marks, probably because I usually correct timing errors within SharpEye before creating the .nwctxt file.  I was taking a shortcut today because there were a lot of timing errors in the SharpEye MRO file, and I thought fixing them in NWC would be quicker and easier.

Thanks to the red marks, it was fairly quick and easy.

Oddly enough, the red marks in the bar number panel disappear when a label is added to the staff.  These invisible items used to be indicated by miniscule red marks within the bars of the staffs but those didn't show up today.

The first system in my enclosed sample image is the imported file; the second staff was just added to show the correct length of the corresponding bars.

Whatever their purpose, the marks were very  handy today. 

General Discussion / A compliment!
I used SharpEye just now to create an XML file from tuned percussion parts, converted that with Niversoft's converter, and brought the resulting nwctxt file into NWC.

I was delighted to see the bar number panel now shows tiny red x marks in each bar where there was a hidden SharpEye artifact - maybe that's what they're intended to identify, or perhaps they're intended to identify bars that don't have the right number of beats for the time signature.

Either way, they're going to make life much easier. 

Thank you, Eric, for adding this feature.  
I guess one for the wishlist - or maybe it is already here and I just don't know -

It would be nice to select several systems and set the properties at one time, rather than select each system on its own, and repeat the effort for each one.
...Another mystery to me, and this may be related, is how to use the visibility options. I have only ever used Default and Never. What's up with all the  other settings?

One of the most useful visibility settings for me is "top staff only," particularly for rehearsal letters, tempo markings, etc.  Generally I copy those to all the staffs, and when I select the staff or staffs to display/print, these marks will only print on the top staff, although they will be visible (faintly) on all the other staffs showing in the edit window .  When I select another staff or set of staffs to display/print, they're present on the new top staff. 

I find the visibility settings a little complicated for the multibar rest feature.  For me it's always a bit of trial and error.
When I tried to get to the Scriptorium using the NoteWorthy Scriptorium and NoteWorthy Composer Scriptorium hyperlinks at, the links took me to, a splashpage for GoGS.  That's something to do with GitHub for developers.

Perhaps the Scriptorium hyperlinks need to be checked?
My wife and I went to Maui and had a very quiet and different Christmas.  I hope your Christmas was as enjoyable as ours.
Thanks Lawrie.  Had I not been writing at 4:30 in the morning, I might have thought to look for that!

Happy new year, eh?
Didn't see an attachment for your 28-12-18 question.  Looked at the 21-12-28 example, and the concept seems okay. 

The colours you apparently want to use are missing - other than the first few "chords" showing ranges, all the notes are the same colour.  The dynamics as shown don't clearly show the message you're trying to convey.  Why are they there?  You should explain them on the page.

The "beginner" range seems awfully limited, and are you sure where it begins?

Range diagrams in Sammy Nestico's The Complete Arranger don't describe the tonal qualities. 

I don't have the book readily to hand but I believe he writes just the bottom and top notes of the instrument's range, marking the difficult ones with parentheses more or less like this:

|Text|Text:"(      )"|Font:PageText|Scale:70|Pos:-14|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Text|Text:"Concert pitch"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:14|Placement:BestFitForward
|Text|Text:"(      )"|Font:PageText|Scale:70|Pos:12|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Text|Text:"Notated as"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:14|Placement:BestFitForward
|Text|Text:"(      )"|Font:PageText|Scale:70|Pos:12|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote

Object Plugins / Re: CueStaff.hmm (0.6)

SEBC would like the pianist to play all the notes in the piano part PLUS, where the oboist is missing, the notes of the oboe solo with more piano notes as well.

I think the problem is presenting the pianist with sheet music that shows (a) what s/he will play if the oboist is soloing and (b) what s/he will play in the absence of the oboe soloist. 

I think I agree with Rick that the oboe part can be treated as a descant to the piano part but not being a pianist, I am not sure how is traditionally presented.  I think it might have to employ cue notes.

If I understand SEBC correctly, where there won't be an oboe soloist, the pianist will be asked to do more than just add the oboe notes to the piano part; the pianist's part will be rewritten to be more elaborate, maybe including the oboe "melody" or replacing it with something else.

So for instance, if the oboe simply has moving quarter and half notes and the accompanying piano intro is just half note and whole note chords, when the oboist is away, the piano part will have some, none, or all of the oboe notes, plus perhaps eighth notes and other ornamentation.

Maybe the simplest approach would be to write two versions of the first page of the piano part on the front and back of a single sheet of paper.  The first side would show the first page of the basic piano part beginning with the three system notation I described in my earlier suggestion.  The back side of the same piece of paper would show the music SEBC wants the pianist to play if there isn't an oboe soloist.

Appropriate text is needed near the top of the pages, essentially saying "play this page if there is an oboe solo"  and "play this page if there's no oboe solo."  You'd need to use prettier language, as long as the direction is clear.

If a back-to-back first page with single sided following pages creates difficulty for the pianist, the other option might be to simply print two versions of the piano part, one for when there is an oboe soloist and a more elaborate version when there isn't the soloist.

Object Plugins / Re: CueStaff.hmm (0.6)
IIRC, a typical piano score for a piano accompanying a soloist has three systems - top system showing the solo in concert pitch, and then the right and left hand systems.

Is there any reason not to do this for your piano part?   If the oboe solo is only a short intro, the piano sheet music need only have three systems for those bars, and then the top staff could be collapsed. 

To ensure any "top staff only" settings were preserved, the piano right hand staff could be collapsed instead of the oboe staff; and the right hand piano part would simply be notated on the oboe staff instead:

O   O   O   O   PR  PR  PR  PR
PR  PR  PR PR  collapse
Windows has a very handy Snipping Tool which might be as good as the Copy Page feature if you only want a small section of the Page Preview page to be copied.

You open it, highlight the part of the screen you want to copy, go to your target page, and paste it.  Saves having to edit out the unwanted parts of the source page.
I agree, hilarious. 

I think that's Taft Jordan at the end, singing It Don't Mean A Thing with the Ellington orchestra.