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Topic: Layers and rests (Read 5143 times) previous topic - next topic

Layers and rests

I have a flute 1 and flute 2 part that I've entered into NWC so that I can see both parts on one page (it was making me dizzy...and was nearly impossible...to read my part then the 2 part then mine then back to 2).

I've got both parts in separate staves and I think now I want to merge the staves and I'm fairly certain that uses layers.  However, when I do that, the rests from Fl. 1 are smack in the middle of the notes from Fl. 2.  This part is basically 4 meas. in Fl. 1 then 4 meas. in Fl. 2, and over and over and over.

There are about 8 measures toward the end where we are playing in harmony.

Is there a better way to do this or should I just leave well enough alone and leave both parts separate on their own staff?

Re: Layers and rests

Reply #1 –
For Fl. 1:
Select the entire staff, and press Ctrl+E to get its Properties.
On the Rest tab, make the 'Vertical Offset:' 4.

For Fl. 2:
Select the entire staff, and press Ctrl+E to get its Properties.
On the Rest tab, make the 'Vertical Offset:' -4.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Layers and rests

Reply #2 –
Thank you!

I actually ended up hiding things things in either staff that I didn't want to show up.

Now I have one continuous piece of music to play Fl 1 and 2 and nowhere to breathe!  Ha!

Re: Layers and rests

Reply #3 –
To be able to tell the difference between the first and second parts on layered staffs, make all the note stems go up on Flute 1 and down on Flute 2.  Where they play in unison, you'll get double stemmed notes, but that's legit. 




Re: Layers and rests

Reply #4 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
To be able to tell the difference between the first and second parts on layered staffs, make all the note stems go up on Flute 1 and down on Flute 2.  Where they play in unison, you'll get double stemmed notes, but that's legit.
This is where it may be helpful to select a note and increase note spacing or accidental spacing where the notes or accidentals appear to be on top of each other.
Since 1998
 

Re: Layers and rests

Reply #5 –
From my experience:

If two layered notes are both the same pitch and the same duration, and they are not whole notes, it is customary to exactly overlay the noteheads, with stems in both directions, as David says.  Else if their durations are different, or if the "top" part is not at least two scale steps higher in pitch than the "bottom" part, it is customary to increase note spacing of one of the notes, as Warren says.

Has anyone ever seen two solid noteheads overlaid, where the durations were different (e.g. a quarter over an eighth)?  The stems could make this understandable, but I don't think I've seen this done.

Re: Layers and rests

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Randy Williams –
Has anyone ever seen two solid noteheads overlaid, where the durations were different (e.g. a quarter over an eighth)?  The stems could make this understandable, but I don't think I've seen this done.
Serge Prokofeiff, Op 12, no 2
Registered user since 1996

Re: Layers and rests

Reply #7 –
Quote
question (RW) Has anyone ever seen two solid noteheads overlaid, where the durations were different (e.g. a quarter over an eighth)?  The stems could make this understandable, but I don't think I've seen this done.  answer (RG)Serge Prokofeiff, Op 12, no 2

I've seen it recently in a divisi alto sax part for concert band in a composition whose name eludes me at the moment. I think I've also seen it in divisi clarinet parts in the concert band arrangement of John Williams' The Cowboys, where you get several bars in a row of quarter-eighth-eighth quarter-eighth-eighth over eighth-eighth-quarter eighth-eighth-quarter at the same pitch.  In the alto sax chart, I think the lower voice has quarter notes, but the upper part has something like eighth-sixteenth-sixteenth, sixteenth-sixteenth-eighth, sixteenth-sixteenth-sixteenth-sixteenth, eighth-eighth (I'm exaggerating, I think), causing quarter notes for the lower voice to be unevenly spaced across half a line of music. 

It's bearable in a small group of notes, but if it extends over several bars, it can be very hard to tell which instrument should play which notes.  I've gone so far as to photocopy my The Cowboys part and then whited out the stems and beams that will be played by the next guy, and to circle the quarter notes in the alto chart so I can find them.

[move]Shudder[/move]

Re: Layers and rests

Reply #8 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
you get several bars in a row of quarter-eighth-eighth quarter-eighth-eighth over eighth-eighth-quarter eighth-eighth-quarter at the same pitch. 
If my attachment is what you are describing, I find the first measure with its merged heads much easier to read than the second measure.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Layers and rests

Reply #9 –
Overlaying quarter-note heads with the heads of notes of lesser duration (eighths, sixteenths,....) is common, and appropriate, in piano music. It is less common - and, I think, inappropriate - in music where one staff is meant to be read by two instrumentalists. In piano music, the overlapping notes are played by the same finger. In duets, they are played by two separate people. Different reading needs.

Re: Layers and rests

Reply #10 –
Rick's example is what I'm talking about.  The Cowboys uses the shared notehead, the double noteheads would create an even more crowded staff, I think.  Anyway, whichever we prefer, we're stuck with what the publisher printed.  Whether or not it's appropriate or not, it's reality.  We see it.  We live with it or we find a way to alter it to make it readable. We don't usually have the opportunity to study the page, unless the band allows the folder to be taken home (some do, some don't).    The song is called, we play it, then move on to the next one.  

Anyhow, I'm off to play a funeral for a 100-year old friend today with my band.  He was one of our founders, and I've known him since he was younger than I am now.  He asked the band to play 4 numbers at his funeral, and promised to listen.  We played for his 100th birthday when he was only 99 1/2, because he wasn't sure he'd last.  But he did - he'd have been 101 this coming January.  If it's an open casket, we better not see him tapping his toe.  He went to meet the Queen in Ottawa this spring, and only three weeks ago, drove himself the 20 kilometres from his home to our rehearsal to tell us about his trip to meet her and to say he'd located a rehearsal hall for us.   The day he died, he went out for breakfast with some cronies, then drove to the mall to do some shopping.  Seems as if he decided to have a nap in the car like he sometimes did, before going into the store.  He just didn't wake up.  It's a good way to go.