It's entirely possible I have been told this before, but if so I haven't retained it!
I'm trying to get Ottavamatic to work - it seems to do the transposition OK, but doesn't show the 8va marks and the associated dashed line above the relevant notes. It seems to me I ought to be presented with a dialogue, but that doesn't happen. I think the fact that it is called Ottavamatic.ms: Apply prevents any dialogue with me, So how can I have any control over what it does?
Yes, but quavers (eighth notes) and smaller already have one or more beams/tails which now become part of the tremolo, and are not additional to it.
To be honest, I'm not sure I explained myself clearly, either!
Attached is a more explicit demonstration of what happens when you apply the object over a whole phrase - you need to hear it to understand my view.
In fact, I don't foresee many situations when I shall need to tremolo-ise whole phrases like this, but at least I now know what to do!
Onwards, upwards (as they say) with some serious score transcriptions and probable arrangement work for 'The Chimes' which I have volunteered to MD in December...
Gentlemen - once again, many thanks for your diligent attention to my questions...!
Nevertheless, I take issue with the idea of adding the note's beams and tremolo strokes to calculate its duration...(?) I don't think this can be right - for me, the audible effect is the bottom line - and I cannot recall an instance where the composer intends the speed of tremolo notes to increase merely because of the number of stems on the note. As hmmueller says "Of course, the tremolo speed is the same everywhere in a phrase.".
I don't have access to Behind Bars, but I took some assurance from the Wikipedia article on tremolo:
"Commonly, for example, the duration used will be demisemiquavers (thirty-second notes). In this case, there will be three strokes through the stems of the notes, except on notes which already have beams or flags [my emphasis]: quavers (eighth notes) then take two slashes, and semiquavers (sixteenth notes) take one."
The effect of this is to make all the tremolo notes the same (thirty-second notes or demisemiquavers). The notated example in Wikipedia shows just that: a tremolo phrase of mostly crotchets (quarter notes) where the one quaver (eighth note) has just two additional beams (=tails) to bring its total (as for every other note) to three.
As I say, the effect of the object can generally be mitigated by adjustments to individual instances of the tremolo.
So good of you to persist in bothering with my little niggles...!
I now understand why I cannot have tremolo and legato on a split stave (though I still don't understand why it actually does happen at the beginning of bar 24...!). My preference has always been for avoiding layered staves, and to go with slighty imperfect effects/looks and tolerate them...!
During my further experimentation, I discovered the 'feature' that, as soon as the tremolo object finds a quaver (8th) or smaller note, it adds a spurious extra beam to the current note - not physically/visually, but in its operation. I am not a string player, but I'd like to bet that a violinist does not alter the rate of 'scrubbing' according to different note lengths! I attach a little file to demonstrate this. It can be overcome by patient and individual alteration of the beaming for the shorter notes - but not completely, since the object does not allow a number of beams smaller than 1.
As ever, very grateful for your patient attention to my ramblings...!
I have carefully implemented all your suggestions, with satisfactory results! As you point out, cutting and pasting does seem to be the only way to have the sound and appearance both right at once. And as for the Folders thing, I found it was sufficient to peform the Online Synch to put things back as they had been - which was a relief.
I expect I missed out years ago (again) on the explanation as to why the User object mutes the relevant notes, and why they nevertheless sound...
I attach my current piece of work to show where the puzzlement came from. A further mystery: if you look at/listen to bar 24 you will note that the tremolo in the lower part stops when it reaches the top note (B flat), and resumes in the next bar. In which ever order I input and remove various notes in that chord, I cannot make the upper note legato and the lower note tremolo - though this does not apply earlier in that bar - quite mysterious!
A further thought: if you recommend me not to use the Make Tremolo user tool, am I still able to select a whole passage of several bars and apply the tremolos all in one go - or shall I need to apply them to each note/chord separately?
Hi Mike - and many thanks for your very prompt and helpful reply! (believe me, I really need that level of detail!). It's getting late now so I sha'n't put your advice into practice until the morning, but you have clearly pointed out a proper path to follow, which I expect I might never have found for myself...
When I opened some old compositions (having rearranged my Plugins folder, I was warned that Noteworthy had "detected 71 unkown objects". I warily did not then save the compositions, but now I am wondering how to put things back in a sensible place, and how to let Noteworthy know where that is, so that I don't lose all my previous Tremolo work...
Mike - I hope I'm not too late to catch your attention on this topic!
I have just found the need to have two parts on one stave (tails up and tails down) with both parts using Tremolo Single. I think I have understood, through the various comings and goings a few months ago, that this should now be possible. This would be an improvement on having to make chords with a joint tail just in order to get the double tremolo. My troubles are compounded by my lack of experience of installing objects.
Reading through the whole topic, I am not sure where I am supposed to obtain the object. The first reference to it is 9 years ago. Am I to understand that the link under that old posting currently points to the latest version, or not? If not, where should I be going for it, please?.
Next, when I say "Yes, add to system" my Noteworthy seems to record its position by pointing to the Downloads folder - not the folder pointed to by the Options page - so I have tried to move it to the latter location and get away from references to the Downloads folder. Is this a correct procedure?
On top of that, I'm unsure whether in the end I actually do have the latest version a) because it doesn't seem to be labelled or dated in any way and b) because it doesn't seem to have the upper/lower/both option and c) because it doesn't give tremolos to both parts...
There is unfortunately a further question - namely, does the Make TremoloSingle.ms work in the same way (i.e. tremolo on two parts)?
I should be very grateful for your patient guidance! TIA
I have to say that I did have quite high expectations of some useful reponse(s) from the Forum - but this, of course, does not diminish my gratitude to you all for taking time out to address my puzzlement!
I am very happy with Harald's amazingly detailed account of all that goes on inside the MIDI, from the point of view of instructions it receives from Noteworthy. What is immediately clear from your combined offerings is: the technology is not at all simple; there are terminology issues; there's a history of changes to the MIDI 'standard' over time; and in general a great complexity on offer that might appeal to the sound technician or recording engineer (for example) - but which (thankfully) I don't really need to know about. I think it extremely unlikely that I shall ever need to know how to address banks of alternatives within a patch.
Incidentally, when recreating Britten's 'Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra' a while ago, I found relatively straightforward the concept of using the VirtualMIDISynth twice as if it were two separate 'instruments' in order to be able to address up to 32 channels and so cover the large number of instruments all playing at once.
Moving on to Lawrie's contribution - there was no need to apologise for the possibility of telling me stuff I already know. I have said elsewhere that I would never object to what the writer would feel was a condescending approach: (s)he couldn't know me well enough to assess my level of knowledge/ignorance, and having it pitched it low would always be my preference. I feel Lawrie's instructions will stand me in good stead hereafter - and I'm already happy with Transposition...
My take from all of this is that, on a Need To Know basis, I will probably always have the Send Patch and Send Bank Select buttons checked, keep zeroes in the MSB and LSB fields, and continue to select Predefined Instruments as before. Although I do compose occasional pieces, I'm never tempted to stray into experimentation with 'unreal' sounds - and my other use of Noteworthy is to recreate live orchestral sounds from conductors' scores.
Finally, thank you, Flurmy, for your additional notes on the history of the MIDI specification - probably happily sailing a little over my head, but still there should I need to refer to it in some unimagined future exercise!
In conclusion, the way is now clear(er) for actual musical (re)creation to proceed.
Given I have been a moderately frequent user of Noteworthy over the last 20 years at least, you may find this request for information a little surprising...!
I'm embarking on a new transcription (Elgar's Introduction and Allegro for string quartet and string orchestra, since you ask), and setting up the 13 necessary staves for the various instruments. Yesterday I set one stave to produce the instrument I wanted, using the Predefined Instruments button, and experimented with playing some random notes - not the right sound. I then ticked the Send Patch button - no change. When I then changed the instrument (and maybe back again), a patch number appeared and the sound was then correct. This (puzzlingly) stayed correct even if I subsequently unticked the button...
In the past I don't remember ever finding this a problem: I've always used a 'standard' Play Back Device - for years the Microsoft thing, now, much more satisfactorily, VirtualMIDISynth from Coolsoft. [Is 'Play Back Device' saying exactly the same thing as 'Soundfont', by the way?] What I have never had to do was investigate the correct patch numbers from a 'Play Back Device' and manually choose them - I've always used Predefined Instruments.
What baffles me is that I can find no reference in any Noteworthy documentation to the correct use of the Send Patch button, nor any definitive guidance anywhere in the Forum. As with other issues, in 'the community' (which I have always found to be very helpful) there seems to be an assumption that everyone (of course) understands everything up to a certain level, beneath which one will never need to sink to pick up the slow learners or those who need to know the very basics.
I downloaded from the Scriptorium the document called cool_instruction.pdf which admirably constitutes a tutorial in setting up a soundfont and gives enough suggestions of playing around to instill a reasonable working knowledge - whilst still stopping short of explaining what happens if you a) do, and b) do not, use the Send Patch button. When it moves on to the Select Bank stuff, it loses me - but maybe I don't need to know for my purposes...
Apart from my main request above, I could do with understanding the 'line of command' from Instrument Selection all the way to what the MIDI in my laptop actually acts upon - and the various options for settings along the way that should make it happen.
Hoping no-one will spend hours creating a Lesson Plan for this enthusiastic but somewhat foggy Noteworthy user - but may post some quick pointers to help me on my way.
Again, I apologise for the length of this post. I hope it has at least been of some help.
Hello again, Lawrie. I am again overwhelmed by realisation of the amount of effort you have expended to try and drag me kicking and screaming back into the world of programming where I once scratched out some sort of living...
I found out for myself (at around the same time that Warren Porter posted the help) that I had failed to include the word 'wscript' in my command line...! So in the end I was able to run Opagust's CopyVolVel - but it wasn't quite what I expected it to be, and that set me wondering whether I've been on the wrong track these last few days.
The concluding words below are the same as I posted to Opagust - I'm sorry for the repetition, but I don't know how these forum postings are supposed to be organised...
I now have a horrible feeling that I've wasted the time of a number of generous people in order to discover the arcane workings of composer tools that, increasingly, I wonder whether I shall ever use (though perhaps it's Too Early To Say). So much of what I need to do with Noteworthy involves painstakingly listening and re-listening to the sounds I have prescribed, and then adjusting them precisely with Volume and Velocity settings, almost on a bar-by-bar basis...! So it's decreasingly likely that Global Changes of any sort are going to be what I want (though I might be persuadable otherwise...).
So, once again, thank you all for your patience with a grumpy old git - and maybe we'll talk again at some point!
I have a suite of user tools at nwc-scriptorium.org/wp on the right side of the page. There are generic install instructions above the scripts (already end in .js), and the prompt (if present) will be in the first few lines of the selected script. Just a little different perspective.
Thanks, Warren, for your kind contribution! I think you have laid things out quite clearly, and I expect I shall return in due course to make use of your instructions.
Hi Opagust - I hope you're well - and it was lovely to hear from you again!
I've sort of pieced together some of what you have to do when running a User Tool - though there still isn't a complete guide to how to do that. I had to trawl around to find any reference to Group, because the User Tool dialogue didn't explain what it found unacceptable in my attempt to use it. Someone, somewhere, talked about renaming the .txt file to the php type; someone else said rename it to .js - again, no concerted authoritative source for that puzzle.
Then I ran your CopyVolVel in various modes, and all of them crashed with 'Command process failed'. I have absolutely no idea where to turn now....
I looked again at my 'installation instructions' and I have to admit they are not as clear as I thought they were when I wrote them.
So here's a new version, which I hope is more intelligible (but you're the one to judge). Installation instructions: - Change the extension of this file into '.js'. - Remember the folder where you saved the file, it has to be used in the command line, see below. - In NWC, choose 'Tools/User Tool...'. - Press the button 'New...' and fill the fields: - Group: Choose one of the ecisting groups or create a new one. - Name: Enter a name. - Command Line: Wscript YourScriptsFolder\CopyVolVel.js <PROMPT:Copy:=|Volume|Velocities|Both> <PROMPT:Act upon:=|Visible_Staffs|All_Staffs> <PROMPT:Execution Mode:=|Modify|Show|Help> * Change 'YourScriptFolder' in the name of the folder where you save this file. - Input Type: Choose 'File Text' - Options: Check 'Returns File text'
Note that the double apostrophes in the command line are no longer there. I have found that these can be the cause of 'Command process failed'.
If you can confirm that these instructions are clear, I will put a new version of the file on the forum.
Thanks again, Opagust, for taking the trouble. Admirably clear - and makes a User Interface that seems to have the buttons and options you specify - but it still fails with the same error...
QUICK EDIT! I now discover I must quickly apologise for leaving out the word Wscript at the start of the command line - clearly I should have read it all properly before complaining!
So I have (at last) succeeded in running CopyVolVel - this (of course) has opened up still more questions and things I don't 'get'. Experimentation with a nwc file shows that what your Tool does is copy the _default_ volume values for each dynamic mark (ppp, pp, p, etc.) from one stave's Staff Properties to others. I don't see where it is supposed to find default _velocity_ values, though?
I now have a horrible feeling that I've wasted the time of a number of generous people in order to discover the arcane workings of composer tools that, increasingly, I wonder whether I shall ever use (though perhaps it's Too Early To Say). So much of what I need to do with Noteworthy involves painstakingly listening and re-listening to the sounds I have prescribed, and then adjusting them precisely with Volume and Velocity settings, almost on a bar-by-bar basis...! So it's decreasingly likely that Global Changes of any sort are going to be what I want.
So, once again, thank you all for your patience with a grumpy old git - and maybe we'll talk again at some point!
Yes, Lawrie, I did. I found it clearly and helpfully laid out - but I soon got swamped by loads of unfamiliar (to me) jargon. Then you were away with sophisticated uses of Global Modification. I'm not sure I have the mental capacity (or time) to learn all this - or, for that matter, how much use I would be able to make of it in the end.
In short, friendly and open though your approach was, it still felt aimed at the programmer and would-be developer, rather than the musician who might benefit from it. Not quite basic enough for me - I would never complain if someone overdid the simplicity and feared to be thought condescending. Better that than make all sorts of assumptions of background and experience and thereby leave vital (baby-)steps out.
If the source file is a php source then you have to (well, maybe it's not completely necessary but it's for sure much better) rename it with extension .php and call it saying to NWC that he must open the php interpreter and operate on that file. For example: "php\php.exe scripts\adp_GlobalMod.php <PROMPT:Enter your global modification expression:=*help>" means: run the php interpreter "php\php.exe" with the file "scripts\adp_GlobalMod.php" and adp_GlobalMod parameters "<PROMPT:Enter your global modification expression:=*help>"
If the source file is a javascript source then you have to rename it .js and you have to request the windows script parser "wscript" to interpret it. E.G. "wscript scripts\ThreeEight.js"
if the source file is a Lua source then you don't need to specify any interpreter because the Lua interpreter is already inside NWC.
Does this mean that the supplier of the tool is expected to say which of the various types it is - or is that left up to the poor old end user who may not have any coding experience?
I'm afraid the more I read, the more out of my depth I feel...
have there been any fresh initiatives to explain completely what's going on with Volume and Velocity?
Well, do you play keyboard? Volume is the same as the keyboard volume knob, while velocity is the velocity of the key pressure, that translates directly to key pressure strength. The volume is an attribute of the channel, the velocity is an attribute of the note, so each note can have a different velocity. Depending on the soundfont, changing the velocity may change the timbre too, not just the sound volume. Did you try clavinet?
Did I answer the right question?
Hi Flurmy - er, not actually! I understand what the two concepts mean in the real world, as a pianist and trombonist, but what I meant was how does Noteworthy send instructions about them, and how does the 'play device' and 'sound card' interpret them?
I should probably say why I should like to know: I'm having difficulty creating an 'fp' effect to my satisfaction. That is to say, a loud impact on a note (string instrument in this case) followed within a fraction of a second by a much quieter volume. I had a limited success with MPCs, but they often have a crackly effect, or seem uncontrolled as to delay. Do you have a view about the interaction between the current setting for velocity and the MPC instuctions about volume?
I decided eventually to remove the MPCs and take a step back to the given 'accent' and 'marcato' symbols, together with 'hairpins', and have generally been happier. It is possible I don't have a discerning enough ear to hear the differences, but I long ago gave up trying to understand the fabled Tina Billet document, which I have tried repeatedly to make sense of. All other people do is to point to it, obviously beleving it is bound to sort out all my misunderstandings...
You say "For filling in the command line and the options, I did include installation instructions in the first lines of the tool, I quote: Installation instructions: "
Where are these instructions? I can see them in your kind message above, but not anywhere around the CopyVolVEl.js file....
Hi Opagust - I hope you're well - and it was lovely to hear from you again!
I've sort of pieced together some of what you have to do when running a User Tool - though there still isn't a complete guide to how to do that. I had to trawl around to find any reference to Group, because the User Tool dialogue didn't explain what it found unacceptable in my attempt to use it. Someone, somewhere, talked about renaming the .txt file to the php type; someone else said rename it to .js - again, no concerted authoritative source for that puzzle.
Then I ran your CopyVolVel in various modes, and all of them crashed with 'Command process failed'. I have absolutely no idea where to turn now....
I know all of you by name, though I have corresponded at length (and privately) with only Opagust in the past. I am (in a way unsurprised to find myself) humbled (I believe is the technical term) to discover so many people willing to spend time to pick up a fallen fellow Noteworthyite. I shall look in detail at all your replies - I have already started by refreshing my Starter Kit for User Tools - and hope to be able to send appropriate thanks to each of you in due course.
Incidentally, does anyone know how to stop the user login timing out and destroying one's progress with (for instance) a reply such as this, or a new topic entry?
Quite apart from my previous attempt at a long reply being instantly lost when my login timed out , I can still find no instructions about how to get a User Tool installed and working - it's really hard to believe that no-one has bothered to explain this. I'm trying to copy Volume and Velocity defaults to other staves in my work, using Opagust's bit of code - but he doesn't explain how to make it available in User Tools in my Noteworthy program.
It must put off many potential Noteworthy users to discover there is no 'User Manual' for these add-ons.
I hope someone can come to my rescue. I have used Noteworthy for decades, but obviously not enough for some of the basics to stick!
On another topic, have there been any fresh initiatives to explain completely what's going on with Volume and Velocity? I find Tina Billet's revered file quite indicipherable - and she's no longer around to help others understand it...
, I can still find no instructions about how to get a User Tool installed and working - it's really hard to believe that no-one has bothered to explain this. I'm trying to copy Volume and Velocity defaults to other staves in my work, using Opagust's bit of code - but he doesn't explain how to make it available in User Tools in my Noteworthy program.