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Topic: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration? (Read 7274 times) previous topic - next topic

Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

I see the whole and half note spacing seems to be proportionate but all the rest are the same spacing even with increase spacing for longer notes is enabled.  Is there a way to enforce note spacing to be proportional to its duration for that per measure?   Is this a possibility in future version?  thanks

Gary

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #1 –
The File->Page Setup, Options->Increase spacing for longer notes option applies equally to notes and rests. This is the only built-in option for proportional spacing in NWC.

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #2 –
yes but it only affects the whole and half note, nothing else.

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: gary –
yes but it only affects the whole and half note, nothing else.
It also affects quarters.

That said, note/rest spacing in as of version 2.1 can best be described as primative.
IMO, adding more space to shorter durations would not improve NWC.

A workaround <here>.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #4 –
In case you don't already know about it, you should perhaps be using the "Extra Note Spacing" property of notes and chords.  If you want, you can use an existing generalized search/modify user tool (or an easier-to-use specific user tool that could be written quickly) to automatically add some extra note spacing to all whole/half/quarter notes say, in proportion to their duration.  For extra spacing at the very end of a measure, a text object with spaces in it can be added.

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Randy Williams (purdue) –
you should perhaps be using the "Extra Note Spacing" property of notes and chords.
Or perhaps not. I have yet to find a case where "Extra Note Spacing" produces a superior result to adding "Preserve Width Text" in front of the note.

Using "Extra Note Spacing" for spacing won't work with accidentals or rests. This negates its use as a general spacing method. It is also coarser than using "Preserve Width Text".
Registered user since 1996

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #6 –
thanks a lot guys thats helpful.  hopefully in future versions they will make the note and rest spacing exactly proportional to their durations for each bar.  

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #7 –
G'day Gary,
Quote from: gary –
...hopefully in future versions they will make the note and rest spacing exactly proportional to their durations for each bar.   

I'm not certain this is quite the right approach.  Proportional spacing definitely, but an exact mathematical proportion?  Alfreds has a good graphical comparison which I'll post below. 

For myself, I find that NWC's proportional spacing is generally fine, but this is probably because I rarely have need to use notes of shorter duration than a quaver or the occasional semiquaver (1/8ths and 1/16ths).

NWC appears to stop reducing the space once you get to the quaver.  I can see advantage in a small further reduction in spacing of shorter notes for use in things like hymnals and such, but for general sheet music I find the current spacing sufficient.

That said, some user override controls on spacing would be welcome - especially in some instances where trying to manage page layout are concerned.  This additional control should be quite fine though, fractional rather than integer with negative as well as positive numbers.

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.
 

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #8 –
I think we should accept that Noteworthy is a notation programme, not a music typography one, and limit our expectations of its layout and print out.  If you want well laid out music, I'd advise using Lilypond, as I do.   From my perspective, I'd far rather have additions that improve its ability to notate (like the additions of Marcato, as I requested earlier) than anything to do with print-out.

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #9 –
Quote
I have yet to find a case where "Extra Note Spacing" produces a superior result to adding "Preserve Width Text" in front of the note.

I have to make extensive use of layering, and often have to tweak the note spacing in one staff to get it to overlay properly with the other staffs it layers with.  Preserve Width Text to my knowledge impacts all staffs synchronously, which is great if that's what you want.  But I find Extra Note Spacing invaluable in many cases, and actually, I like that its granularity is a notehead's width.  I've never needed to adjust a rest in this manner (nor was this asked for in the post :-).  Granted, in the rare case I run into it, the accidental thing is an annoyance.  But even if Extra Note Spacing may or may not be useful to me, I shouldn't have assumed it would be useful for anyone else.  :-)

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #10 –
G'day Phil,
Quote from: PhilHolmes –
I think we should accept that Noteworthy is a notation programme, not a music typography one, and limit our expectations of its layout and print out.  If you want well laid out music, I'd advise using Lilypond, as I do.   From my perspective, I'd far rather have additions that improve its ability to notate (like the additions of Marcato, as I requested earlier) than anything to do with print-out.

I find I must respectfully disagree somewhat.  What use is the ability to notate if you can't print it properly?  I support your request for native support for more articulations etc. but it needs to print these things properly too, including improved layout.  Lilypond is way too hard to use in comparison to NWC.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: PhilHolmes –
I just convert Noteworthy to Lilypond for printing.

Oh yes, I'd forgotten about your conversion tool.  I hadn't pursued it because IIRC Lilypond uses it's own fonts and as I prefer to use my SwingDings suite this is not a desireable alternative for me.  It may be possible for me to migrate my suites but I have no desire to put that much work into it...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #13 –
we use the staff to notate the pitches graphically, the rhythm should also be accuately represented graphically. I dont see the distinction between music typography and  music notation in this instance.

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: gary –
the rhythm should also be accuately represented graphically.
In music of any complexity, it can't be. It can be "hinted at", but that is about all.

A cardinal rule of vocal music is that some part of the syllable sung must be within the vertical bounds of the note. Notes must be moved accordingly. Where several notes are sung to the same syllable, the notes are tightly packed.

Consider a 32nd chord forming an interval of a second with two accidentals. It is simply impractical to make all 32nd notes in the measure that wide and make longer notes even wider.

Certain rhythms are well known. In a long passage of [dotted 8th, 16th, ...] anything more than tight packing is just a waste of paper.

"Proportional to their duration" is far too simple. Making a half note 8 times the width of a 16th note would look absurd.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #15 –
maybe 32nd would get a little exaggerated but, who said anything about printing, i like to play right off the screen as NWC chases the notes.  Hey while trying to test your statement I discovered a way to make it exactly proportional. I just take another staff and put a full measure of the smallest duration note of the measure Im trying to space, then DISABLE  'add increase note spacing for long notes" and it perfectly spaces the notes. Nice!  

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: gary –
who said anything about printing
You did, I think:
Quote from: gary –
I dont see the distinction between music typography and music notation in this instance.
Quote from: gary –
Hey while trying to test your statement I discovered a way to make it exactly proportional.
I am happy that this satisfies you. An example of a similar technique: Tu ad liberandum
This was done a few versions back and a few word extenders are a bit off.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Is it possible to make note spacing proportional to their duration?

Reply #17 –
Quote
Hey while trying to test your statement I discovered a way to make it exactly proportional.

The easy learning curve, the workarounds and the exchange of ideas in this forum are part of the magic of NWC.